Seats - Suspension Verses Tub & Harness Tech

I have always been one in support of suspension seats and against tub style seats. However, after doing a lot of research over the last few days, I am not sure. In my old Single Seater, I went through one suspension seat and the second replacement was a Corbeau LG-1. When the Solo Buggy was built, that seat was used from the Single Seater. I have now broken down the bolster on the door side. I also have these same seats in the 38 Special.



I can find no information in print about the minimum distance required under a suspension seat. Mastercraft did say on Race-Dezert that 3 inches was minimum. In order to keep the roof line as low as possible, I had Adam keep the seat as low as possible, even not using sliders. The seat bolts straight through the floor on the rear and is on a 1/4" riser in the front, just to allow bolt access. There is no way to gain room under the seat. So, do I now have a non-suspending suspension seat? I think so, the seat has no downward movement except what is in the padding.

So, why not go to a tub style seat, like a Sparco?



I have always been against tub style, or Kirkey style. I have told many that they needed to remove them from their buggy, because they were unsafe. But, I have never heard or anybody getting hurt in one. Several of the bouncers use them. I realize Patoyee got hurt, but I think those seats were plastic. I'm sure he will chime in.

In reading, I found this old thread on Race-Dezert,

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/another-broken-back-at-the-parker-425-suspension-seats.58050/

Here is a newer thread.

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/suspension-seats-vs-hard-seats.119703/#post-1632904

Looking at going with the Sparco Evo 2 US (Pic Above) with the UPR foam. It is expensive at $979 for one.



With that said, I have always had problems keeping my harnesses tight, and my back hurts after a day of riding. So, upgrading to a ratchet style harness from Hooker Harness. But, it is stupid expensive at $630 for one harness. I do not want to go away from the camlock, and I have not found another manufacturer. Would love to find just the ratchet assembly.



Another Race-Dezert thread from Dustin Webster.

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/ratchet-seat-belts.60680/

I feel I am hurting because the suspension seat does not have enough clearance to work properly (Not Adam's fault, I told him where to place the seat), and the harnesses continually loosening allowing body movement.

I have been rear suspension tuning recently, and have it so it is a lot better / softer and no longer constantly hitting the bump stops. Now, rarely hitting bump, any only once at Choccolocco did I bottom out a bump. Saw it using wire ties, but not hard enough to feel. This has helped, but I think I can get better with seating.

Looking for input, especially from the racers, and race car shops.

Yes, I'm old, but not researching walkers yet

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

I got some PRP 5.3 "pull up" style harnesse when I was racing, made all the difference in being able to get the harnesses tight.

Pull up style , as in you pull up instead of down on the slack end to tighten the lap belts.

They cost the same as regular harnesses, you just have to measure the fixed length distance from your seat belt bolt to where you want the tensioner cam/adjuster.



I actually have the sets I was using in a box, they were used for 2 races then i took them out and parted the rig. Pay for shipping and you can try them out if you want ... They are not cam lock though

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

You should just buy those 2 Corbeau seats, with harness's and all the crap that goes with them, think he came down to 500 bucks and they are in Bham! I would be interested in buying the sliders since you can't use them.

Re: Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

TBItoy said:

I got some PRP 5.3 "pull up" style harnesse when I was racing, made all the difference in being able to get the harnesses tight.

Pull up style , as in you pull up instead of down on the slack end to tighten the lap belts.

They cost the same as regular harnesses, you just have to measure the fixed length distance from your seat belt bolt to where you want the tensioner cam/adjuster.



I actually have the sets I was using in a box, they were used for 2 races then i took them out and parted the rig. Pay for shipping and you can try them out if you want ... They are not cam lock though

Click to expand...

I have to agree on the pull up harnesses. In our race truck the way the cab is built it was nearly impossibe to tighten the harnesses before with someone helping. The cab area is only about 2 inches total wider than the seat. Switched to the pull up style and it made all the difference.

On a side note if the harnesses ever get wet in the mud truck that will make them get a little looser. Since i know were going to see water in the cab i always wet the harnesses before the races start. For some reason it helps them stay tighter through a run. I know you wont do that in a buggy, but it is something ive picked up from the mud racing world.

Edit: Im not sure how the seat you have now mounts but the seats PRP sell for a could be another option. They mount to a flat surface on the factory slider so they have a flat clearanced mount built into the bottom of the suspension seat. Dont know if you would have the room for it but just a thought.

Drew Pate
Cordova Al

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

Ive had several buggys all having suspension seats, which I liked, but now having a bouncer and racing and driving more agressive, ive been sore in my back and wearing a full faced helmet I did not have much head room, so I switched to kirkeys, layed them back more, added one inch extra foam to the back and the bottom of the seat, gained a few inches of head room and love how the feel, easier to clean with removable covers also! So far im happy I switched!

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

In every racing vehicle we have built or raced it has always had some type of kinky style seat in it. They hold you firmer in place and don't allow the movement a suspension seat does. Also on some you can get what size foam you want in it such as size and firmness. We have also been know to make our own cushion to go under the cover.

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

One of my good circle track friends runs and was sponsored by Crow Harnesses, these have the ratchet style tension. When his go out of date you just mail them in and they reuse your hardware. He tells me the money is in the latches and brackets. On the seats I loved my kirkey in the circletrack car and had a few good crashes (knocked rear end out etc) really a good seat on lateral force or front to back. Never had a solid downward lick in one, however with the single seater I think you would be fine having a kirkey. I like the corbeaus as well but the take up much more room from what I have seen. Thats my .02
http://pitstopusa.com/i-18725660-crow-sprint-car-midget-ratchet-latch-link-restraint-system-55-bolt-in-seat-belt-w-wrap-around-bolt-in-individual-dog-bone-harness.html

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

Imo, you just don't see kirkey's in ultra 4 and desert racing for a reason. They have their place and work great where they are intended.

I have some prp podiums. They are night and day better than any other seat I have sat in. When I ran ecors they were noticeably more comfortable than the corbeau seats I had before. But I'm seeing alot of ultra4 racers going to those sparco seats, healy, miller, chicky had them in his ifs, napier, etc. Probably worth looking into for your specific needs. For a suspension seat to work properly, I think you need 3 plus inches under the seat for movement.

Another thing to look at is your shoulder harness mounts. They need to be at YOUR shoulder level or slightly above. Anything below will compress your back when tight. I also run prp 5.3's with pull up lap belts.

Once I got my prp seats and harness mounting right, I prefer having them sinched tight at all times.

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

I've been nothing but thrilled with my Corbeau bottom level/entry level suspension seats. I think they're Baja's....whichever you see for like 250$ each. Had them in the old Cherokee, and replaced the reclining buckets in the Juggy with them not long after purchase.

I honestly can't imagine being MORE comfortable while trail riding. I don't think i'd ever get a reclining seat for offroading. They just seem too flimsy. I had a set of reclining Corbeau's in the Mustang(used for autocross/open track), and they wiggled alot. Switched to a fixed back Corbeau and felt much more in control.

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

Is there a good "seat and seatbelt installation thread"? I am to that point in my build and was just going to eyeball the angle and belt height. But I might as well do it right the first time. Thanks

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

tonybolton said:

I've been nothing but thrilled with my Corbeau bottom level/entry level suspension seats. I think they're Baja's....whichever you see for like 250$ each. Had them in the old Cherokee, and replaced the reclining buckets in the Juggy with them not long after purchase.

I honestly can't imagine being MORE comfortable while trail riding. I don't think i'd ever get a reclining seat for offroading. They just seem too flimsy. I had a set of reclining Corbeau's in the Mustang(used for autocross/open track), and they wiggled alot. Switched to a fixed back Corbeau and felt much more in control.

Click to expand...

**** tony if you ever got a set of seats that actually fit you it's even better!

I felt the same way about my first set of bajas just like you have, then I had some corbeau Baja ultras wide version and they were even better, but a little too wide.... Then I had corbeau XP, they were good for racing, but too restrictive for trail riding,
So when I built the gremlin I had prp build me some standard width +3" taller comp high backs. Damn near perfect. And I also got a mesh panel added to the seat bottom so I can wash them out and they don't hold water! Best feature Evar

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

Well....i'm completely comfortable, they feel like they fit me as-is. However, I will agree with you on the "not holding water" thing. I can't believe those seats dont have some kind of drain hole or something.

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

tonybolton said:

Well....i'm completely comfortable, they feel like they fit me as-is. However, I will agree with you on the "not holding water" thing. I can't believe those seats dont have some kind of drain hole or something.

Click to expand...

They fit "ass wise" it's the height that gets me on those bajas, since the "headrest" hits ya in the neck and such. It's especially noticeable when you wear shoulder belts and take a couple hard rolls.

Put a screwdriver in your back pocket and jump in the seat, makes a drain hole pretty quickly :****:

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

LOL.....i'd like for it to not keep unraveling afterwards. My mom knows how to sew really well and she told me she could probably make something work but i'd hafta take the seats out give them to her. I was like....I welder'ed them in, so that probably wont happen.

I've yet to roll this thing, but it's been tossed on its side quick a time or two and i've felt very secure in there. Stupidly enough, when those times happened I was not wearing my harness. I think when spring hits i'll pick up some easier to use harness's and get a submarine/crotch belt.

I use the seat belt buckle type in the mustang and they are easy to use. The whatever brands in this jeep are really awkward to adjust and have that big lever/catapult style clasp.

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

Eddyj said:

Is there a good "seat and seatbelt installation thread"? I am to that point in my build and was just going to eyeball the angle and belt height. But I might as well do it right the first time. Thanks

Click to expand...

Search "5 point harness mounting" on google. There are some good pictures and about every harness company has instructions. Other than that I know pirate4x4 or race-dezert will have plenty of discussion threads on their forums.

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

John, I believe PRP now makes a ratcheting style harness, that is a whole cheaper than those others....I believe they were designed for aircraft use, so that is why they are so expensive. Why not use one of those PRP RAZR seats like WOD used in one of their most recent builts? They mount flat and a looke like they would hold you in pretty good. I currently have PRP Comp high backs that are +4" tall, havent used them yet other than fitting them in the buggy and sitting in them making vroom vroom noises, but they are very compfy.....they also were built with the mesh in the bottom for being able to wash them out. We also put they same style in a customers rig and I have drove it around town a bit with them......I like them.

Brian

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

1TONZR2 said:

John, I believe PRP now makes a ratcheting style harness, that is a whole cheaper than those others....I believe they were designed for aircraft use, so that is why they are so expensive.

Click to expand...

I looked at those, but they don't have a camlock available. I have been running those for 8 years and don't want to go back to a lever latch catch.

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

JohnG said:

I looked at those, but they don't have a camlock available. I have been running those for 8 years and don't want to go back to a lever latch catch.

Click to expand...

Call them. I bet they would sell you just the ratchet. We've installed them before, it's nothing special and I'm pretty sure you could just put one on the end of your exsiting belts.

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

Crow has the ratchets as well, but they are not on their order form. I know a lot of people that like them because of the sewn on shoulder pads. They will custom make what ever you want for a reasonable price.

http://www.crowenterprizes.com/Crow_CamLock_OrderForm.pdf

Re: Seats - Suspension Verses Tub

Anybody know of anybody that will sell just the ratchet.