Wilwood break question

30th6 · Sep 26, 2018

I have wilwood manual breaks on my buggy. The front m/c is a 3/4 and the rear is 7/8. The buggy has 1/2 Chevy calipers on all 4 corners. The guy at wilwood is the one that suggested the mc sizes, but the front breaks suck. The pedal goes all the way to the floor, while the pedal for the rear barely moves. I looked on line and people was talking about using residual pressure valves to get better breaks. I ordered one for each mc and I called wilwood to see where I needed to install them. They told me i didn't need them if my mc was higher than the calipers. He also told me i should use a 7/8 for the front breaks.
I do not have a balance bar, each mc is separate from each other, each master cylinder controls an axle
I'm lost at this point,It's my first time using manual breaks.
Do I need the residual pressure valves?
Or do I need the 7/8 mc?
I don't want to keep throwing money at it and not fix it

Dirt700 · Sep 26, 2018

I'm in almost same boat. I have an 04 model with the factory disc brakes and 3/4 mc and brakes sucks. Front is a new SD axle with lugnut 4x4 brake kit with 3/4 mc, and they aren't the best, but alot better than the rear

wizzo · Sep 26, 2018

I run the same set up, as far as independent systems for front and rear. I had good luck with 7/8 MC when I had 1/2-3/4 ton chevy calipers. I ran and still run a residual valve right off the MC for both MC's. Maybe 6" down stream from MC. The residual valve just keeps pressure on the line so you don't have to "pump" the brakes to build pressure.

7/8 MC for both makes sense. But before you run out and buy another MC, I would put the residual valve on each. Bleed the hell out of each system and see what you get. Which ever feels and works better, THEN buy a matching MC.

paradisepwoffrd · Sep 26, 2018

Is the front pedal firm to the floor or soft? Can you pump it up?

Does the rear work, or just stiff?

I haven't ran the numbers, but my guess is 7/8 is too big, without going boosted.

Residual valves help to keep fluid in the caliper. Many of the bigger calipers hold much more fluid than you can push with manual brakes. If you get better braking by pumping the pedal, residual valves might help.

Bebop · Sep 26, 2018

Staying logical :

- You have the same calipers at all 4 corners so you need the same MC size front and rear.

- Start by installing both residual valves, bleed them good and test again.

Then, and only then :

- If 3/4 MC feels fine and brakes good while 7/8 MC is still hard, switch to dual 3/4 MCs.

- If 3/4 MC keep sending the pedal all the way down, they don't move enough fluid, so dual 7/8 MCs is the way to go.

- If 7/8 MC pedal is hard to push but works good when you apply a lot of pressure, you need a longer pedal to increase leverage.

My 2cts

Dirt700 · Sep 26, 2018

I forgot to mention that I have residual valves, and 7:1 pedal. Just talked to wilwood he said I could try a 7/8, but it was just a suggestion. I'm gonna try and bleed them one more time

30th6 · Sep 26, 2018

The rear brakes work great. The front does not. I'm ok with having a stiff pedal that don't have to move 7inches to have brakes.
The brakes to feel better when I pump them.
I'll do what's suggested and install the valves and report back.
If no improvement I'll buy a 7/8 mc, thanks for the help.

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jmf · Sep 26, 2018

I'm in the same boat. Started with 7/8 mc front and rear. 1/2 ton brakes on rear stock 1 ton on front. Changed front mc to 3/4 as recommended by wilwood and added residual valves as recommended by several members on here. No noticeable change in brakes.

Dirt700 · Sep 26, 2018

A buddy of mine had an extra 7/8 and 1 inch mc, gonna play around with it, and see what happens

paradisepwoffrd · Sep 27, 2018

Re: Re: Wilwood break question

jmf said:
I'm in the same boat. Started with 7/8 mc front and rear. 1/2 ton brakes on rear stock 1 ton on front. Changed front mc to 3/4 as recommended by wilwood and added residual valves as recommended by several members on here. No noticeable change in brakes.

Do you have separate pedals or 1 with balance bar?

What issue are you having? No stopping, stiff pedal, soft pedal, etc?

When trying to diagnose/improve, it's best if you can isolate the systems.

Dirt700 · Sep 27, 2018

Re: Re: Wilwood break question

paradisepwoffrd said:
Do you have separate pedals or 1 with balance bar?

What issue are you having? No stopping, stiff pedal, soft pedal, etc?

When trying to diagnose/improve, it's best if you can isolate the systems.

Separate pedals, soft pedal, you have to pump several times and it still doesn't stop very good

wayne86 · Sep 27, 2018

I'm having the same issue with a CNC setup. I'll keep following along. I thought most of my problem was because my masters were too big. I was going to down size to 3/4 or 7/8 but it doesn't seem to be helping you. I have a very similar setup but with a balance bar (that may be my problem).

Dirt700 · Sep 27, 2018

Waffle said:
I'll share my solution since I was in the exact same boat as you, but ya might not like how much it cost. Here's the rundown......

My original problem: My manual brakes sucked and would not safely stop my buggy with 43's no matter what I did. I had 3/4 ton calipers/rotors at all corners to a 7:1 single pedal. With 3/4 mc it was too soft and had to pump. With 7/8 mc it was too hard and I had no room for a longer pedal. Swapped the standard 3/4 ton calipers for the slightly larger 3/4 ton version to gain clamping psi force, same result. Swapped pads to higher friction, same result. I was getting desperate. 2500 stall btw and I've always ran residual valves with braided softline.

My solution: I gave Spidertrax a call and asked for help. I was told that I'd first need a larger diameter rotor to increase brake torque leverage and I'd need a caliper that doesn't flex and perfectly matches with a 7/8 mc. He suggested their 14" rotors/hats matched up with their Wilwood 6 piston superlites with the softer/less friction pad option. I was told my 7:1 pedal with soft lines would suffice and it would all fit inside a 17" wheel. I took a chance and placed an order. What really helped me pull the trigger was my direct experience installing larger rotors with Wilwood superlites on my car years ago.

Results: He was right. The pedal feels perfect to me and instantly starts grabbing the moment I put pressure on the pedal. Nearly zero slack. I have zero issues holding my buggy either climbing or descending any trail/hill I go on and I couldn't be happier with the results.

If you do go this route, Wide Open Designs sells a bolt on caliper mount for Dana 60's. I used this and the Spidertrax rear caliper mounts. I'll also add that I'm using the 3/8 thick chromo solid rotors and bought my stuff before the thicker internally vented rotors became an option.

I would like to go this route eventually. my wife would **** if I spent another 2k on brakes right now. Burkey has the kit for sd60 axles, that use branik hats and rotors, I haven't seen anything (kit wise) for the new 14 bolt. I will definitely have nice hats and rotors with wilwood calipers, eventually

slravenel · Sep 27, 2018

Dirt700 said:
I would like to go this route eventually. my wife would **** if I spent another 2k on brakes right now. Burkey has the kit for sd60 axles, that use branik hats and rotors, I haven't seen anything (kit wise) for the new 14 bolt. I will definitely have nice hats and rotors with wilwood calipers, eventually

You can mount the rotors to the back side of a 14 bolt hub. You will need to open up the holes in the hats slightly and press the studs through the hats (will make the rotors not slip on any longer, but who cares). Weld on caliper mount and rock out.

This is how I did mine: I am using Solid Mfg hubs on mine...but the process would be all the same.

Dirt700 · Sep 27, 2018

Thanks, is yours the new axle with factory disc? It will be a little while before I do this but it's good info. What size mc you have with those

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slravenel · Sep 27, 2018

No it isnt, its a normal 14bolt with a Solid Mfg hub conversion. I dont know enough about the new ones...but if the studs are through a hub like normal, I dont see why you couldnt put any rotor on the back like that. You would need to be moving the caliper bracket anyway... but I havent studied the new ones that much to know for sure. Do you have a picture of what you are working with?

I am running a 3/4 and 7/8 single pedal CNC with balance bar. Hardline everywhere except the moving joints. Residuals on both straight out of the MCs.

I have 0 braking issues at all - my old setup with the same pedal and MCs and 1/2 Chevy calipers and rotors wouldn't stop for ****.

Dirt700 · Sep 27, 2018

I will try and get pics tonight, hopefully the 7/8 or 1 inch mc will get me by for now. All my lines are SS braided

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30th6 · Sep 27, 2018

I hooked up the 7/8 no change, I called wilwood and they said try a 1inch mc.
I guess I'll try the residual pressure valves since I already have them.

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30th6 · Sep 27, 2018

Ive been using a one man bleeder, so I had a buddy come buy (v8turtle) and help me bleed the front, I tapped on the front calipers with a deadblow hammer and some air came out. I adjusted the pedals all the way up and used the 7/8 mc on the front and 3/4 on the rear. It's a lot better and will slide the rear tires on pavement.

I can live with the way it is now but it's not near as good as my yj booster with dodge 2500 mc.
Anyone wanna buy some residual pressure valves? I have 2 that's never been used

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