Elbe Hills ORV future improvments. (input)

I was talking about this on the WOW board the other day...

I don't see why we can't(with permission) build a Yellow Jacket type hill climb with one of the lines on the Easywild hills... Still leaving a easy side, but build something on one line that you could spend a few hours getting a group up the hill... If we build some challenging obstacles in other areas of the trail system, it'll take traffic off the trails that get the most abuse... I like that area with the hill climbs...

Tahuya has obstacles in areas that are easy and people don't have to take that line... But, if they have a less capable rig they can still get there to watch...

Nancy Has given the go ahead to turn the small hill N rock coverd road that goes from the swamp trail to the 9 road into something more challenging. I beleave the Dog Pound 4x4 club has adopted that trail. Maybe they could use some help?

Crazy Daze said:

Over the years the logging operations have turned some of the 4x4 trails into roads, so there are 13 miles of "trails" by the DNR standards, but not by user standards. So the some of the side roads are part of the trail system but they need to be turned back into something challenging and worth driving over. The bad part is they can be turned back into logging roads if there is a timber sale because the area is a tree farm.

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I think we should look into using some of the trails that are more like roads the same way Tahuya did... We can build some articulating whoops...

(I'm taking this out of context from the previous posts saying so.) - Why is it that when a 4x4 club adopts a trail that you (other ORV users) must ask them permission to change that trail? Or do you.....is it just a courtesy?

And.......Why wouldn't that club that has adopted said trail not want it to be more challenging? I'm not talking about really hard stuff, just more challenging.


Step 1. you get permission.

Step 2. you get materials (there are already donor rocks, there at Elbe) and get folks involved.

Step 3. you do it.

Step 4. you wheeling it.

What am I missing here?:scratchhead:

Money Mark said:

(I'm taking this out of context from the previous posts saying so.) - Why is it that when a 4x4 club adopts a trail that you (other ORV users) must ask them permission to change that trail? Or do you.....is it just a courtesy?

And.......Why wouldn't that club that has adopted said trail not want it to be more challenging? I'm not talking about really hard stuff, just more challenging.


Step 1. you get permission.

Step 2. you get materials (there are already donor rocks, there at Elbe) and get folks involved.

Step 3. you do it.

Step 4. you wheeling it.

What am I missing here?:scratchhead:

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When a club "adopts" a trail there is a semi formal agreement with the DNR to take care of the maintainace and needs of that trail. Its a way to create pride by "ownership" and helps to keep the trails maintained on a more regular basis. As Gibby stated before all of the trails at Elbe are already rated so that there is something for everyone. You (figurative) cant just go around changing things just because you want to. There are processes and guidelines to follow to keep the agencies happy. Just my opinion but far to many people have way overbuilt their rigs for the trails we have around here. Now everything is to easy and not challenging enough. Changing the trails to suit the needs of the overbuilt is not fair to all of the people that spent years getting these trails built in the first place or those with stockish type rigs. There are opportunities as pointed out above to create some tough areas on some of the trails that were turned into roads. To me this seems the more logical approach and keeps everyone happy

I think the mainline trail myself needs the help. Its a rocky road with a dozen mudholes on it.

It is wide open and the perfect place for a "skill building" kind of trail.

Its not in the woods,making recovery of busted junk easy. Its accessable by all rigs. Its mainly been just a road since logging left it.

It is mostly a two lane trail and could easily support a hard line and an easy line too. It already has lots of rock to work with and is mostly flat making erosion a non concern. And it is easy to get equiptment into.

Just food for thought as long as the BS is rollin.

I agree to all of that Jim.


It raises the question though. If the clubs that adopted those trails (many years ago???) are "stuck in a rut" and not progressing (vehicle capabilities) as the typical Elbe user has progressed; how do does this come into play?

What is "easy"?

I guess I should have a clarification.......what do you guys really want out of these opportunities to build new trails?

There's a reason Nancy won't let anyone/club adopt the Busy...

I don't see why we can't have a hard line and easy line on trails that already provide two lines within the corridor... Not saying, change the entire trail, but add some obstacles to make it more interesting/challenging in certain spots... It would still leave the trail nice to run for the small tire crowd...


I do also think we need to do something with the Mainline as Brad mentioned...

Money Mark said:

I agree to all of that Jim.


It raises the question though. If the clubs that adopted those trails (many years ago???) are "stuck in a rut" and not progressing (vehicle capabilities) as the typical Elbe user has progressed; how do does this come into play?

What is "easy"?

I guess I should have a clarification.......what do you guys really want out of these opportunities to build new trails?

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Thats why we have coordinators to keep a eye on such things as well as the DNRs supervision. As for Elbe in general the trail adoptions are a fairly recent thing so still "fresh". BTW there are no "new" trails to be built at Elbe.

pokey said:

Thats why we have coordinators to keep a eye on such things as well as the DNRs supervision. As for Elbe in general the trail adoptions are a fairly recent thing so still "fresh". BTW there are no "new" trails to be built at Elbe.

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Yes. I'm using the term "new trail" as in, "make more challenging". I believe we all understand that Elbe has it's maximum trails mileage, as is.

Folks are making the point, though, that there is a need to take existing trails and build them to be more challenging. What are the coordinators eeek:who are they?) and DNR doing about this need?

I understand Nancy (DNR) has expressed interest in allowing a start to the "new trail" building process. But so far all you guys have is pile of rocks (a year old) and a handshake agreement.

What do we do now?

i like brads idea on the main land trail. people can get there with stock rigs, easy to haul broken rigs out, kind of like the 2 hills at tahuya. good idea pork chop, i mean chop shop!

super samurai said:

i like brads idea on the main land trail. people can get there with stock rigs, easy to haul broken rigs out, kind of like the 2 hills at tahuya. good idea pork chop, i mean chop shop!

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hey buddy thats what Im here fo.:kissmyass:

Money Mark said:

What do we do now?

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Show up to the Elbe focus group meetings...

That's where I presented the plans to rebuild the shelter... Got the OK and Nancy worked with me to get it done...

The rocks for the Rainier Vista has been a topic at the meetings as well as the other plans for improvement... Like the log pile on Gotcha by WTF, the work on the Swamp Trail by the Dogpound and so on...

Some times Nancy tells us right away that we can't do it... On things that will fly, she works with the club or person(s) to get it done... We've built a really good relationship with Nancy over the years and she has been straight forward with us and our concerns... She hasn't had a problem helping us achieve our goals...

Just come up with an idea and a plan to get it done and see if it sticks...

If you don't ask, you'll never get a yes...

pokey said:

When a club "adopts" a trail there is a semi formal agreement with the DNR to take care of the maintainace and needs of that trail. Its a way to create pride by "ownership" and helps to keep the trails maintained on a more regular basis. As Gibby stated before all of the trails at Elbe are already rated so that there is something for everyone. You (figurative) cant just go around changing things just because you want to. There are processes and guidelines to follow to keep the agencies happy. Just my opinion but far to many people have way overbuilt their rigs for the trails we have around here. Now everything is to easy and not challenging enough. Changing the trails to suit the needs of the overbuilt is not fair to all of the people that spent years getting these trails built in the first place or those with stockish type rigs. There are opportunities as pointed out above to create some tough areas on some of the trails that were turned into roads. To me this seems the more logical approach and keeps everyone happy

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What about the club ( no names) that adopted the Sun Rise trail. They had two work partys in the last couple of months. And had still not met Nancys wishes. We spent most of saturday fixing/completeing what they had not. It goes both ways.

JAWS said:

What about the club ( no names) that adopted the Sun Rise trail. They had two work partys in the last couple of months. And had still not met Nancys wishes. We spent most of saturday fixing/completeing what they had not. It goes both ways.

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It sure does. :awesomework:

Thanks.

JAWS said:

What about the club ( no names) that adopted the Sun Rise trail. They had two work partys in the last couple of months. And had still not met Nancys wishes. We spent most of saturday fixing/completeing what they had not. It goes both ways.

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Some areas take a lot of work and we Joe Public need to keep kicking into to help clubs like the Tamers, Dogpound, Cascade 4x4 etc that have adopted trails. Just because they adopt a trail doesn't mean that they always have all the manpower to get everything done.

If it wasn't for Joe Public wheeler kicking in to help the clubs meet their responsibilities and attain their goals, we'd be heading downhill.

Gibby said:

Some areas take a lot of work and we Joe Public need to keep kicking into to help clubs like the Tamers, Dogpound, Cascade 4x4 etc that have adopted trails. Just because they adopt a trail doesn't mean that they always have all the manpower to get everything done.

If it wasn't for Joe Public wheeler kicking in to help the clubs meet their responsibilities and attain their goals, we'd be heading downhill.

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Whens the last time you went out to Elbe and hit some trails N checked out what needs to be done or seen repairs that need to be addressed. Where you at any of the work parties this. To see what kinda man power or equipment they had?. Or r you just speaking of pure speculation?

JAWS said:

Whens the last time you went out to Elbe and hit some trails N checked out what needs to be done or seen repairs that need to be addressed. Where you at any of the work parties this. To see what kinda man power or equipment they had?. Or r you just speaking of pure speculation?

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January and I recently GPS traced the Sunrise, Mainline, Mainline extension, Easy Wild, Busywild Rainier Vista, Gotcha and Alder Loop.. I didn't get to the Inner Alder Loop or the Swamp Trail to get those done. When those missing sections are done, and with a little help from one of the Tamers who has some better skills than I with the mapping. We'll have a new map of the trail system both on paper and for those with GPS that will not only have trails, but I'm marking bridges, intersections, obstacles etc. Here's my un-tweaked version that I did in January for you:awesomework:


However, I was making a generalized statement about clubs adopting trails. Each of these clubs have adopted trails, but sometimes the work that needs to be done is more than then can handle themselves.

You forget that I organized, ran and attended every Elbe work party (except for the ones that the Tamers did on their own while working on the Sunrise trail) for 2 years while I was the PNW4WDA land manager for Elbe. I have a pretty good handle on what it takes and how to accomplish the tasks, even if I haven't seen the most recent trouble spots.

At this time Cascade 4x4's does not own the adoption to the EasyWild trail. We submitted paperwork for it to Nancy and we never heard back...

there is some dissention on what will happen on the swamp trail but thank you to those that have gave us a hand. keep giving your input to anyone that will listen and we will try accomadate everyone(impossible) and hopefully end up with an enjoyable trail. thats my PC answer, ill keep my other opinions to myself (for now).