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Seeking 383 propane engine build advice
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<blockquote data-quote="Burbling2500" data-source="post: 1571692" data-attributes="member: 21902"><p>I am still learning and posted here to learn more.</p><p>The factory rated per mile on the '93 suburban unleaded is ~14 gallon. Not great fuel optimization on the TBI design. I believe it was tbichips.com that was recommended here and planning to have him do the final tune and chip burn after Dyno so we'll see.</p><p></p><p> I chose the tbi for it's simplicity and overall reliability rather than ported fuel injection now for that reason. Same line of thinking with the selected propane kit. It uses the o2 sensor to adjust between fuels and a delete. even the pre '95 Chevy..nearly 30 yrs of on the ground interchangable parts. I'm trading some fuel economy.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The energy density limts mentioned are just a reality as well. A build to optimize propane and unleaded will be different, but each designed equally well for it's intended purpose would come down to it's btu's 91,500 btu propane 112,000 unleaded. A ~20% difference. which can be compensated by making more power through bigger engine.</p><p></p><p>[USER=1384]@TBItoy[/USER] is correct from my understanding. Assuming each design is optimized The limit of any fuel type whether propane, unleaded or even syngas (wood gasification is next project. The octane of syngas is 104, propane 108. I'll just get a cheap 350 to experiment. Not road worthy? About 1 million wood gasifiers were in operation in WW2 for every form of power generation and vehicles from cars to tanks ). The only limits are the intrinsic energy density or btu's and the ability of the engineer. I am not one for sure.</p><p></p><p>The value benefit becomes apparent in the cost per btu. Bulk off season propane is 1/3-1/2 the price unleaded per btu which more than makes up for the loss dollar for dollar. I mentioned the 3-5 miles per gallon to the conversion shop and he left saying I better not cut him a check if that's the best he can do.</p><p></p><p> Once this all comes together I'll be able to share real numbers. It may be that I run propane on a light load. Economy mode and flip to unleaded climbing some hills with a trailer. </p><p></p><p>Talking with the engine builder the first thing I was asked was what is the use of the vehicle. My priority was getting 250k miles out of a propane engine and make enough power to tow. The 2 things propane get a bad rep for. Both the shop doing the conversions since '65 and the engine builder who's been building Alt fuel engines for 30 yrs would say the fails are poor design and misapplication and gave good specifics of why and how.</p><p></p><p>Efficiency was 3rd priority on this build. His design focused on atomization and quench for optimizing fuel, but because of my priorities I wouldnt expect more than 30% rather than 20% of potential energy. Still a savings. For me even if propane cost the same as unleaded per mile I would choose it because of versatility, storability and stability. Folks beheld to unleaded are subject to anything and everything hand to mouth everyday. </p><p></p><p>For example right now today the NG that powers and heats our whole country has doubled over last year and grain drying and heat season increases aren't even begun. Aside from that storage is half capacity of where it normally at right now because of exports. Bidens "emergency reserves" liquidation will expire shortly. Propane is fractioned off right away and barely related to transport. This should make it less effected and more easily available as policies put the hurt hold on Petro.</p><p></p><p>There are more efficient and powerful propane builds than this, but probably will only have $15k total into an off-grid tow vehicle that is essentially new under the hood and can maintain any situation and place with minimal tools. Maybe light duty rock climbing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Burbling2500, post: 1571692, member: 21902"] I am still learning and posted here to learn more. The factory rated per mile on the '93 suburban unleaded is ~14 gallon. Not great fuel optimization on the TBI design. I believe it was tbichips.com that was recommended here and planning to have him do the final tune and chip burn after Dyno so we'll see. I chose the tbi for it's simplicity and overall reliability rather than ported fuel injection now for that reason. Same line of thinking with the selected propane kit. It uses the o2 sensor to adjust between fuels and a delete. even the pre '95 Chevy..nearly 30 yrs of on the ground interchangable parts. I'm trading some fuel economy. The energy density limts mentioned are just a reality as well. A build to optimize propane and unleaded will be different, but each designed equally well for it's intended purpose would come down to it's btu's 91,500 btu propane 112,000 unleaded. A ~20% difference. which can be compensated by making more power through bigger engine. [USER=1384]@TBItoy[/USER] is correct from my understanding. Assuming each design is optimized The limit of any fuel type whether propane, unleaded or even syngas (wood gasification is next project. The octane of syngas is 104, propane 108. I'll just get a cheap 350 to experiment. Not road worthy? About 1 million wood gasifiers were in operation in WW2 for every form of power generation and vehicles from cars to tanks ). The only limits are the intrinsic energy density or btu's and the ability of the engineer. I am not one for sure. The value benefit becomes apparent in the cost per btu. Bulk off season propane is 1/3-1/2 the price unleaded per btu which more than makes up for the loss dollar for dollar. I mentioned the 3-5 miles per gallon to the conversion shop and he left saying I better not cut him a check if that's the best he can do. Once this all comes together I'll be able to share real numbers. It may be that I run propane on a light load. Economy mode and flip to unleaded climbing some hills with a trailer. Talking with the engine builder the first thing I was asked was what is the use of the vehicle. My priority was getting 250k miles out of a propane engine and make enough power to tow. The 2 things propane get a bad rep for. Both the shop doing the conversions since '65 and the engine builder who's been building Alt fuel engines for 30 yrs would say the fails are poor design and misapplication and gave good specifics of why and how. Efficiency was 3rd priority on this build. His design focused on atomization and quench for optimizing fuel, but because of my priorities I wouldnt expect more than 30% rather than 20% of potential energy. Still a savings. For me even if propane cost the same as unleaded per mile I would choose it because of versatility, storability and stability. Folks beheld to unleaded are subject to anything and everything hand to mouth everyday. For example right now today the NG that powers and heats our whole country has doubled over last year and grain drying and heat season increases aren't even begun. Aside from that storage is half capacity of where it normally at right now because of exports. Bidens "emergency reserves" liquidation will expire shortly. Propane is fractioned off right away and barely related to transport. This should make it less effected and more easily available as policies put the hurt hold on Petro. There are more efficient and powerful propane builds than this, but probably will only have $15k total into an off-grid tow vehicle that is essentially new under the hood and can maintain any situation and place with minimal tools. Maybe light duty rock climbing. [/QUOTE]
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