14 bolt front axle questions

poolman · Sep 10, 2014

Ok I've searched and trying to make sure I've covered every option, I'm thinking about ditching my lp60 and building a 14 bolt steering axle for the front. I don't care to tear down the 60, currently have CM shafts and drive flanges 513 gears with a spool. What's my best way to go money wise wise? Any info appreciated! :fish:

TBItoy · Sep 10, 2014

You'll have to decide what to do about inner axles

Get a regular 30 spline 14 bolt spool and get new inner axles with the 14 bolt 30 splines

Or

Get a 40 spline 14 bolt spool and some 40 spline inner axles

Pretty sure it will cost about the same either way.

You can get a Yukon 30 spline spool for ~$265 or a Nitro 40 spline spool for $325

or maybe source a 35 spline 14 bolt spool somewhere? not sure if they are available anywhere

b.boyd · Sep 10, 2014

Re:

40 spline.com can offer a 35 spline spool i believe

TBItoy · Sep 10, 2014

Re:

b.boyd said:
40 spline.com can offer a 35 spline spool i believe

I remembered reading that, but didn't see it on their website, so not sure of the availability.

if they have 'em, that would be the cheapest way to go and keep your inner axles

al1tonyota · Sep 10, 2014

A question that needs to be asked! Are you breaking your 60? If so could you run maybe a 4.88 gear? A lp 60 5.13 is the same size pinion gear (not shaft) as a 4.10 8" Toyota :****:

tonybolton · Sep 10, 2014

Thnkin' out loud here at near midnight....would it be possible to weld in some D60 side gears and maybe re-use this inner shafts? Thankfully I haven't opened up/looked inside a 14 bolt diff.....yet.

Feel free to unleash the full on Pirate4x4 retard/stop wasting oxygen replies on me....i've probably been called worse at one point. :drinkers:

kushKrawlin · Sep 11, 2014

Nah **** that tony, hell that's why I fawkin love this site, I can ask a question and not get Fukin roasted by a bunch of **** Pirates that are/were spoiled lil bitches .. I too have been doing some research on this Also. From what I have read I have come up with 2 things.. One, we coulda dam near built a 14 for what most of us have in our 60's ..
And 2. TBITOY Knows a **** ton about this subject.. Hell i passed out the other night reading A thread and there was a lot of good info.. Tbitoy seemed to know more and have a dam nice 14 front he was building. Speaking of that (not to hijack) but Tbitoy, wasn't there a list of pretty much everything needed to build one? HA! If i remember everyone was talkin bout havin 5000 or so buks in their axle and he came in I think at 800 buks with a few lil parts to go. I wish i could just find some instructions on how to build one! :

haha. I'm thinkin he was using 05 super duty **** so the shafts would fit.. Hoping he will chime on in again with some more info on this.. I also hope I'm not completely wrong on what I read also, I don't remember a lot when I read late at night after a 6 pack or so (of doobies) :dblthumb:

Good subject tho, dam after 3 hours of readin smart ass comments I get Fukin frustrated and don't gain **** ..

tonybolton · Sep 11, 2014

Nick deffinetly knows his stuff.

The AL1TONTOYOTA guy made a good point as well about gear ratio. I purchased some 5.38's to put in a front 60 I was building and was kinda shocked at the pinion gear.....it was like the same size as a D44 4.88 I had.

I'm currently running 4.88's in a Chevy LP 60

I ran 4.88's in a D30 and D44. I masacred the D30 4.88's but the D44 LP 4.88's never gave me issues. Broke chromo shafts/joints with that D44, but the R/P never flinched. The pinion size in same ratio from D30 to D44 was a HUUGE step up.

The 14 bolt has that 3rd bearing support, but I think i'm with the pinion size argument on this. I mean, aren't alota the rock bouncers still running D60 fronts? Short of Cameron/Tanner/Etc. Hell, I think Basler is running 9" center sections. Never seen him break a diff. Broke an Atlas at Windrock first. Shane Kellars old Hill Killer running 9's too.

TBItoy · Sep 11, 2014

Re:

I just read and daydream a lot.

There is a big difference in the 14b front I have (I bought the housing already built BTW) and some of the others. You can spend as much $ as you want on one.

I'm in process of building another 14b steer axle.

Basler is running high zoot desert truck level 9" stuff. (Like TCs newest buggy, and Shane Keller's Hill Killer buggy that he recently sold)

slytowncrawler2 · Sep 11, 2014

I thought I saw on extreme one time...... Where, blue torch??? Has a weld in seal retainer for the do it yourselfer. for the purpose of making it a steer axle.....

slytowncrawler2 · Sep 11, 2014

I'm still learning an trying to figure out beat combo for a 14 bolt steer as well.
Tbitoy what shaft are you talking about using so u can use inner seals??
I'm assuming they want u to use this kit with aftermarket shafts???

http://www.wideopendesign.com/Product/209/Crane-Revolution-14-Seal-System.aspx

RustyC · Sep 11, 2014

Inner seals >> http://www.essentiallyoffroad.com/hardcore-steering-axles/crane-revolution-14-seal-system/
The least expensive way to build a 14bolt front from scratch is using a 05 up Superduty doaner axle outers. Get the inner c's machined to fit the 14 bolt.

but

at that point you have weaker shafts and meteric bolt pattern= more work $$

If you really want the strength of 14 bolt front. Get some aftermarket kingpin c's to fit a 14 bolt housing. Reuse all your 60 stuff (chromo shafts vrs oem) 35 spline spool and solid pinion spacer.
or sell the 60 out right and built a 14 bolt from the ground up with chromo 40 spline. It would be strong but very$$

poolman · Sep 11, 2014

RustyC said:
Inner seals >> http://www.essentiallyoffroad.com/hardcore-steering-axles/crane-revolution-14-seal-system/
The least expensive way to build a 14bolt front from scratch is using a 05 up Superduty doaner axle outers. Get the inner c's machined to fit

but

at that point you have weaker shafts and meteric bolt pattern= more work $$

If you really want the strength of 14 bolt front. Get some aftermarket kingpin c's to fit a 14 bolt housing. Reuse all your 60 stuff (chromo shafts vrs oem) 35 spline spool and solid pinion spacer.
or sell the 60 out right and built a 14 bolt from the ground up with chromo 40 spline. It would be strong but very$$

Like the rest of us I want strong without breaking the bank, I was hoping I could use some parts off my 60 instead of just selling it??

Great info on the gears, I knew 513 were weaker but not that weak.

WideOpenDesign · Sep 11, 2014

You guys really have to watch trying to build the front 14 bolts to accept the Dana 60 length shafts. The pinion off sets in a 14 bolt is a lot different than in a 60. We build a lot of these axles here. The best way to do it is get the 14 bolt housing re-tubed and then set it under your rig . Get the pinion setting where you want it side to side. Then cut off the excess tube and install your knuckles. We have come up with a standard off set that we use for passenger drop and drivers drop axles that works in most every case. There are always exceptions though.

But don't go down the road of trying to save the axles out of the 60 unless you have done your home work and made sure it will fit in you rig. The worst thing in the world is to spend all that money and put it together on the bench and it won't fit where you need it to. I've seen that happen.

My suggestion is to sell your front axle complete and start from scratch. Unless you plan on completely butchering off every part you can to build the 14 bolt. If you can do the work your self it will save you a lot of money. But, in the end I think that you may have to get new inners made.

The Crane seals are the easiest and cheapest way to seal the front axle.

If you need any help feel free to call the shop or message us on here .

TBItoy · Sep 11, 2014

Re: Re: Re: 14 bolt front axle questions

slytowncrawler2 said:
I'm still learning an trying to figure out beat combo for a 14 bolt steer as well.
Tbitoy what shaft are you talking about using so u can use inner seals??
I'm assuming they want u to use this kit with aftermarket shafts???

http://www.wideopendesign.com/Product/209/Crane-Revolution-14-Seal-System.aspx

The inner axles on my axles are cut from super duty long side shafts, they are large diameter so the seal surface can be machined anywhere you want.

My axles also have Sealsit type inner axle seals, which I don't think are quite as good as a "real" inner axle seal setup.

When I get ready to put together my next axle, I'll be using Crane inner seals from WOD.

I'll also be getting chromoly inners rather than resplined factory inners.

kushKrawlin · Sep 11, 2014

WideOpenDesign said:
You guys really have to watch trying to build the front 14 bolts to accept the Dana 60 length shafts. The pinion off sets in a 14 bolt is a lot different than in a 60. We build a lot of these axles here. The best way to do it is get the 14 bolt housing re-tubed and then set it under your rig . Get the pinion setting where you want it side to side. Then cut off the excess tube and install your knuckles. We have come up with a standard off set that we use for passenger drop and drivers drop axles that works in most every case. There are always exceptions though.

But don't go down the road of trying to save the axles out of the 60 unless you have done your home work and made sure it will fit in you rig. The worst thing in the world is to spend all that money and put it together on the bench and it won't fit where you need it to. I've seen that happen.

My suggestion is to sell your front axle complete and start from scratch. Unless you plan on completely butchering off every part you can to build the 14 bolt. If you can do the work your self it will save you a lot of money. But, in the end I think that you may have to get new inners made.

The Crane seals are the easiest and cheapest way to seal the front axle.

If you need any help feel free to call the shop or message us on here .

Now that it's pretty badass ****. Considering I'm sure he would much rather sell you and Axle, I would guess that most will not offer advice.. that there tells me all I need to know about you and how you do buisness!!! And I can promise Ya have my buisness if I need somthing you guys sell! Really impressed man! I actually was on your site the other day and built a 14 bolt front axle, and almost ran off the road when I saw what my total was!!! Haha. Im 100 % positive it would be worth it if I had the money!! Thanks man. That's pretty dam cool if ya ask me.

Technician · Sep 11, 2014

Get 35 spline dana 60 side gears and have them milled down to fit the 14 bolt carrier then you can use dana 60 shafts.

tonybolton · Sep 11, 2014

Technician said:
Get 35 spline dana 60 side gears and have them milled down to fit the 14 bolt carrier then you can use dana 60 shafts.

That was my idea.....with less tech, though.

I have a Dodge D60 front axle with the odd EXTERNAL drive flanges. To run the 35 spline outers, a D60 side gear was cut down and then welded to the old 30 spline drive flange(old splines were cut out). Looks factory.

poolman · Sep 14, 2014

WideOpenDesign said:
You guys really have to watch trying to build the front 14 bolts to accept the Dana 60 length shafts. The pinion off sets in a 14 bolt is a lot different than in a 60. We build a lot of these axles here. The best way to do it is get the 14 bolt housing re-tubed and then set it under your rig . Get the pinion setting where you want it side to side. Then cut off the excess tube and install your knuckles. We have come up with a standard off set that we use for passenger drop and drivers drop axles that works in most every case. There are always exceptions though.

But don't go down the road of trying to save the axles out of the 60 unless you have done your home work and made sure it will fit in you rig. The worst thing in the world is to spend all that money and put it together on the bench and it won't fit where you need it to. I've seen that happen.

My suggestion is to sell your front axle complete and start from scratch. Unless you plan on completely butchering off every part you can to build the 14 bolt. If you can do the work your self it will save you a lot of money. But, in the end I think that you may have to get new inners made.

The Crane seals are the easiest and cheapest way to seal the front axle.

If you need any help feel free to call the shop or message us on here .

Thanks, really appreciate it, can't get much better customer service then that! I already knew wide open was the go to place to build from the ground up I was just looking for any options to say some cash. Thanks for all the response.