4 Link Adjustment

[JEEPKEVIN]

New build, I used the Goatbuilt subframe. 3 upperlink bolt holes front and rear at frame side. Buggy is to the point of riding around neighborhood, testing all systems. I'm getting the traditional torque over to the right under hard acceleration in 2wd. Been trying to google set ups and not finding what I want. Called Goatbuilt and got some insight but unsure if it is correct.

If you increase separation at frame side, you gain anti squat?

If you drop driver side link at frame mount more than passenger side you can counter torque?

I run a TK1 rear swaybar but don't have any bias set in it.

I also might be a touch light on springs, dual rates not tuned as of yet. I'm 150 over 150 in rear with 1/2" preload and right height is perfect. I'm running Radflows and he valved them based on corner weights. I know proper shock tuning is next step but thought I could play with link placement first.

Any info appreciated!! Tried link calculators and just got confused.

 

[slravenel]

New build, I used the Goatbuilt subframe. 3 upperlink bolt holes front and rear at frame side. Buggy is to the point of riding around neighborhood, testing all systems. I'm getting the traditional torque over to the right under hard acceleration in 2wd. Been trying to google set ups and not finding what I want. Called Goatbuilt and got some insight but unsure if it is correct.

If you increase separation at frame side, you gain anti squat?

If you drop driver side link at frame mount more than passenger side you can counter torque?

I run a TK1 rear swaybar but don't have any bias set in it.

I also might be a touch light on springs, dual rates not tuned as of yet. I'm 150 over 150 in rear with 1/2" preload and right height is perfect. I'm running Radflows and he valved them based on corner weights. I know proper shock tuning is next step but thought I could play with link placement first.

Any info appreciated!! Tried link calculators and just got confused.View attachment 117325

well there could be a lot at play here... do you have more pics of the suspension setup?

 

[JEEPKEVIN]

well there could be a lot at play here... do you have more pics of the suspension setup?

 

[Beerj]

I get pretty hard chassis roll from torque as well. However, it was explained to me that my gearing played a big part. 3.8 in the tcase and 4.10 in the axles. Something about if the bigger reduction is in the axles, then you don't see as much torque transferred to the chassis.

 

[The-Boss]

My advice is to learn how to use and manipulate the 4 link calculator. The next big hurdle is knowing the number ranges to shoot for. Unfortunately I have forgotten that part of the advice I had used. The last rear 4 Link I built for my buddy used the calculator and it works extremely well. Good thing because it isn't adjustable. His has a 3.8 and 4.10s on 43s without torquing a lot so I'm not sure on that. Do you have a front sway bar? I think they might be more effective for this type of torquing.

 

[logon444]

his setup is 5.3L lm7 4l60e atlas 5.0 and 4.56 axle ratio... so he is low

 

[slravenel]

that rear end squatting you guys are getting is squat (in the anti-squat discussion). get more anti squat and youll limit that...but keep in mind there is a trade off to everything.

the calculators work ok for letting you see what does what, but they are definitely not the end all be all for real life building in my opinion.

i try to stick to the 20% rule and its never steered me wrong...separation at the chassis roughly 20% less than it is at the axle. keep your lowers as flat as possible at ride height. uppers going downhill to the chassis if possible. that will get you pretty damn close.

in your situation, try moving the uppers into those holes higher up on the chassis and see what that does. you have the adjustability, play with it and see how it makes your rig react. every single setup reacts differently than the next one bc there is alot more at play than just the link locations.

i wouldnt bother putting different springs on any different sides...thats not the proper way to fix it. you also have light springs but they arent lighter than normal. do you have any tuning at all done on the shocks (this isnt your issue, but it can help the feel some too in general)

 

[JEEPKEVIN]

I worked with Glenn from Rad flow, gave him corner weights, shock angles and such. He built my shocks based on my build. They hopefully are a close starting point.

After looking at the rear Goatbuilt truss, I think I am starting to see where my issue might start. This idea is just based on pics of their rigs on their site. They said there design is based off there products. I deviated. I used the Ruffstuff rear truss with upper link mount on top of truss. i have way more separation at the axle than they do. My upper links aren't level with the ground at ride height. That down hill angle is causing the lift. I will move the upper links at the chassis side all the way up in the brackets to get more level at ride height and see what this does. Fingers crossed!!

Worst case is to move links mounts on rear axle down to face of truss. I can just order a pair of brackets from Ruffstuff again and try that. Leave the current upper mount where it sits. This would be more similar to the Goatbuilt design.

I went Ruffstuff on rear uppers because I liked the idea of rotating heims flat with ground, keeps them in proper working relationship.

 

[slravenel]

you want the lowers parallel to the ground and the uppers going downhill from axle to chassis (in a perfect world)

this isnt doable in all places...but if you can move your chassis uppers up to those holes and still have less separation at the chassis as the axle, youre (generally) in good shape.

dont be as concerned with the axle truss setup for now, its fine.

 

[JEEPKEVIN]

Got it. Thanks!!!

Got a little rain coming through Dallas and chassis isn't painted. I'll move arms today and test drive maybe tomorrow.

 

[JEEPKEVIN]

So a follow up as to what I have learned. The mounting holes at the chassis side of their subframe allow 2" total change between the upper most hole and lower most hole. With the upper arms in upper most hole, they are just barley down hill to the chassis at ride height and this seems to eliminate rise and squat for the most part. Very acceptable. With them at the lowest hole, ass end moves a bunch! So 2" makes a big difference. Rear links have 11" separation at the rear axle. So I'm right in line with the 25% rule, I'm on 43"s.

I think it would be interesting in future to change the upper mounts on rear axle. Maybe incorporate some adjustability. That will be a pain to change what I have so might keep my eyes peeled for a bare 14b housing and build up to reduce down time. A project for another day.

I'm moving forward with teardown and paint.

Oh, and paint, learned something there. I chose to go with the Rustoleum Hammered finish. I'm brushing it on to reduce mess in my garage. Plus tube work is just a pain to coat everywhere. I started with my skid plate because nobody see's that. I brushed on like anyone would do and it didn't come out like the picture on the can. Brush strokes, poor hammered finish. Tough as nails but not real attractive. Then I figured it out.

1" wide brush, and dab dab dab like you would if you were sponge painting. Aerate the paint, all rough and texted nasty looking. Then over the coarse of seconds, the paint starts to lay down. It just smooths its self out. The hammered look is really fish eyes or separation of the colors of the paint. I did my whole front housing with truss and all brackets this way and took about 30 mins rolling it around to hit everything. Looks super good!! The black is really more of a charcoal gray and the silver is pretty light once applied but darkens up as it cures. Use throw away brushes. Brush will look like muppet hair as you abuse it. After about 15 mins, trash that brush and grab a new one. The paint starts drying in brush and doesn't hold paint real good. I'll add some pics once I get more done.

Thanks for all the help on the suspension!!!

 

[Markrobinson]

So a follow up as to what I have learned. The mounting holes at the chassis side of their subframe allow 2" total change between the upper most hole and lower most hole. With the upper arms in upper most hole, they are just barley down hill to the chassis at ride height and this seems to eliminate rise and squat for the most part. Very acceptable. With them at the lowest hole, ass end moves a bunch! So 2" makes a big difference. Rear links have 11" separation at the rear axle. So I'm right in line with the 25% rule, I'm on 43"s.

I think it would be interesting in future to change the upper mounts on rear axle. Maybe incorporate some adjustability. That will be a pain to change what I have so might keep my eyes peeled for a bare 14b housing and build up to reduce down time. A project for another day.

I'm moving forward with teardown and paint.

Oh, and paint, learned something there. I chose to go with the Rustoleum Hammered finish. I'm brushing it on to reduce mess in my garage. Plus tube work is just a pain to coat everywhere. I started with my skid plate because nobody see's that. I brushed on like anyone would do and it didn't come out like the picture on the can. Brush strokes, poor hammered finish. Tough as nails but not real attractive. Then I figured it out.

1" wide brush, and dab dab dab like you would if you were sponge painting. Aerate the paint, all rough and texted nasty looking. Then over the coarse of seconds, the paint starts to lay down. It just smooths its self out. The hammered look is really fish eyes or separation of the colors of the paint. I did my whole front housing with truss and all brackets this way and took about 30 mins rolling it around to hit everything. Looks super good!! The black is really more of a charcoal gray and the silver is pretty light once applied but darkens up as it cures. Use throw away brushes. Brush will look like muppet hair as you abuse it. After about 15 mins, trash that brush and grab a new one. The paint starts drying in brush and doesn't hold paint real good. I'll add some pics once I get more done.

Thanks for all the help on the suspension!!!

cut it with xylol. I usually put about a couple ounces of paint in my cut pot and cut it with xylol. By the time I'm done with that amount it's getting hard to work. I have a couple tubes where I can see brush strokes.
It's not super durable but it's forgiving to touch up

 

[slravenel]

So a follow up as to what I have learned. The mounting holes at the chassis side of their subframe allow 2" total change between the upper most hole and lower most hole. With the upper arms in upper most hole, they are just barley down hill to the chassis at ride height and this seems to eliminate rise and squat for the most part. Very acceptable. With them at the lowest hole, ass end moves a bunch! So 2" makes a big difference. Rear links have 11" separation at the rear axle. So I'm right in line with the 25% rule, I'm on 43"s.

I think it would be interesting in future to change the upper mounts on rear axle. Maybe incorporate some adjustability. That will be a pain to change what I have so might keep my eyes peeled for a bare 14b housing and build up to reduce down time. A project for another day.

I'm moving forward with teardown and paint.

Oh, and paint, learned something there. I chose to go with the Rustoleum Hammered finish. I'm brushing it on to reduce mess in my garage. Plus tube work is just a pain to coat everywhere. I started with my skid plate because nobody see's that. I brushed on like anyone would do and it didn't come out like the picture on the can. Brush strokes, poor hammered finish. Tough as nails but not real attractive. Then I figured it out.

1" wide brush, and dab dab dab like you would if you were sponge painting. Aerate the paint, all rough and texted nasty looking. Then over the coarse of seconds, the paint starts to lay down. It just smooths its self out. The hammered look is really fish eyes or separation of the colors of the paint. I did my whole front housing with truss and all brackets this way and took about 30 mins rolling it around to hit everything. Looks super good!! The black is really more of a charcoal gray and the silver is pretty light once applied but darkens up as it cures. Use throw away brushes. Brush will look like muppet hair as you abuse it. After about 15 mins, trash that brush and grab a new one. The paint starts drying in brush and doesn't hold paint real good. I'll add some pics once I get more done.

Thanks for all the help on the suspension!!!

Nice! Glad that worked out for you. I wouldnt worry as much about making the axle end be adjustable - the tradeoff there would likely be less noticeable than it is at the chassis end. But im glad you were able to make it work with what you had already there. A little adjustment goes a long way!

 

[87TPIYJ]

Glad you got it worked out to your liking. I didn't see it really answered here, but it looks like you figured out that more vertical separation at the frame will lower your antisquat. Your AS value is determined by the imaginary intersecting point going towards the front of the chassis of your upper and lower links. COG comes into play too. Hope this helps.