Elephant spinoff. HP vs Traction vs Weight vs $$

RustyC · Dec 18, 2018

We all know a 22r deep gears and light weight works.
We also know lots of HP and wheelspeed works.
Good suspension provides better traction.
All that vs $$

jp fan · Dec 18, 2018

Going all Toyota and keeping it light as possible with good tires is definitely budget friendly and a blast to wheel in the rocks. This combo will cause a ton of butt hurt

wizzo · Dec 18, 2018

My toyota pickup with a fj80 axles and 39 krawlers worked very well. It could definitely hurt feelings and impress. I originally started out building my buggy and I was gonna run that drive train. But I put it up for sale and it sold. Been a downward spiral since then......

With that said, the factory toyota housings will not hold up to the abuse.

IMO 500ish fly wheel HP and a buggy around 3500-4k is a good spot to be for a trail rig. It 100% depends on your wheeling preferences.

Eddyj · Dec 18, 2018

Toyota cab super simple rig on reds with air shocks walked up tubrock like he was driving down his driveway to get the mail about 5 mins before Batman put a 10min 800hp beatdown on the same hill and got denied. Good times...

pennsylvaniaboy · Dec 18, 2018

with the crew I wheel with mine seems to be the outkast, yet gets it done under scrutiny....115" wb 55003 k30 truggy. used to be on all leafs and 38s....everyone said its heavy, wide, long, etc....yet it did most obstacles.....now that its on coils and linked front/rear with 40's it does way better than before, and shocks people with what it can do. A lot of people are shocked by the weight, but it hooks so wheel because of it in the rocks...

MattyB4x4 · Dec 18, 2018

Each has it's benefits. One that walks up a section can get deined on another and vice-versa.

All that said, I think an actual tuned link suspension is worth it's weight in gold.

Dwill817 · Dec 18, 2018

MattyB4x4 said:
Each has it's benefits. One that walks up a section can get deined on another and vice-versa.

^ This..

The difference in wheelbases seems to make a big difference at times. If someone has both front and rear tires trying to climb at the same time, they seem to be a lot less likely to make it up compared to someone who can pop their front up and then bring the rear up.

But then the next obstacle it could be the exact opposite.

I tend to favor the nimble lightweight rigs on stickies. Thought I like a wheelbase around 110.

BustedKnucklefilms · Dec 18, 2018

Eddyj said:
Toyota cab super simple rig on reds with air shocks walked up tubrock like he was driving down his driveway to get the mail about 5 mins before Batman put a 10min 800hp beatdown on the same hill and got denied. Good times...

Oh that will be a video for sure. Rock Crawlers vs Rock Bouncers - Tub Rock. But Don't judge all bouncers by the ones that don't know when to let out of the gas. :rolf:

wizzo · Dec 18, 2018

MattyB4x4 said:
All that said, I think an actual tuned link suspension is worth it's weight in gold.

This is 1000% the biggest factor. Can you put the power to the ground.

slravenel · Dec 18, 2018

another interesting thing is that these days most SE rigs are pretty much set up the same in terms of axle width and wheelbase, or at least pretty close. As trails get more and more beat down, holes get bigger, rocks get taller, lines get sketchier...you can make it up A LOT of stuff easier if you are set up different than those rigs since you can work your way through those real dug out spots in a different way than just sticking 4 tires in holes and standing on the gas until it climbs out.

But I dont think there is any magic setup as long as in general you have a decent set up - its all about how well you know your rig and your preference. Toyotas can definitely embarrass you every now and then though! laughing1

jeeptj99 · Dec 18, 2018

Think about the Flea buggy. He's on 43 stickies now. Toyota running gear, turbo Sami motor, big ass tires and it will out crawl most buggies. Is it flashy all that like a racing bouncer, no, will it do the same trail, 99/100 times I'd say yes.

d_daffron · Dec 18, 2018

I think weight plays a bigger part in climing ability than people give it credit for. All these crazy HP numbers and all of the $$ poured into these buggies but the lighter ones consistently do better in my opinion.

Oh and sticky tires, you gotta have them stickies!

d_daffron · Dec 18, 2018

slravenel said:
another interesting thing is that these days most SE rigs are pretty much set up the same in terms of axle width and wheelbase, or at least pretty close. As trails get more and more beat down, holes get bigger, rocks get taller, lines get sketchier...you can make it up A LOT of stuff easier if you are set up different than those rigs since you can work your way through those real dug out spots in a different way than just sticking 4 tires in holes and standing on the gas until it climbs out.

But I dont think there is any magic setup as long as in general you have a decent set up - its all about how well you know your rig and your preference. Toyotas can definitely embarrass you every now and then though! laughing1

Very good point. My ZJ on 39 reds is on a middle of the road wheelbase but I built it super narrow and it definately hurts feelings by being able to stay on top of the ricks and take the lines wider rigs can't.

MattyB4x4 · Dec 18, 2018

d_daffron said:
Very good point. My ZJ on 39 reds is on a middle of the road wheelbase but I built it super narrow and it definately hurts feelings by being able to stay on top of the ricks and take the lines wider rigs can't.

Back when I had toyota axles I could squeeze in between a lot of stuff, sure going to miss those "toyota lines".

TBItoy · Dec 18, 2018

jeeptj99 said:
Think about the Flea buggy. He's on 43 stickies now. Toyota running gear, turbo Sami motor, big ass tires and it will out crawl most buggies. Is it flashy all that like a racing bouncer, no, will it do the same trail, 99/100 times I'd say yes.

I hiked 5/Crackhead at GMP in the rain and watched Mike drive the flea up that nasty grease covered mess like an access trail... I think literally the only thing it won't do better than other rigs would be big dirt hills (dumb) and maybe near vertical ledges that are 1.5x the wheelbase (very uncommon)

Most rigs are a compromise of some sort though for weight. 2 seater, storage, cooler, axles to hold up for jumping, chassis to hold up to multiple rolls, etc

Jacksonwolf39 · Dec 18, 2018

I love my Sami buggy! Light weight and goes like a goat. Hard to beat a light weight rig with stickies and good suspension. Mine being on tons I can whip the **** out of it all day and it keeps asking for more.

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Jacksonwolf39 · Dec 18, 2018

Eddyj said:
Toyota cab super simple rig on reds with air shocks walked up tubrock like he was driving down his driveway to get the mail about 5 mins before Batman put a 10min 800hp beatdown on the same hill and got denied. Good times...

Blue Toyota? If so that's my buddy Alex Watkins and it's sitting on leaf springs front and rear. Truck will hurt some feelings forsure

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muddinmetal · Dec 18, 2018

Lightweight help rigs feel peppy and keeps parts alive, but there is something to be said for high contact pressure. Think of a weighted 4x4 tractor. Very little horsepower, but gobs of gearing and a drive train that allows you to keep the engine at peak torque, but still at incredibly low wheel speeds. Add very aggressive tires meant for low speed operation, filled with water, and you have a vehicle that can crawl most any loose terrain without slipping a tire

poolman · Dec 18, 2018

Jacksonwolf39 said:
I love my Sami buggy! Light weight and goes like a goat. Hard to beat a light weight rig with stickies and good suspension. Mine being on tons I can whip the **** out of it all day and it keeps asking for more.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk