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Width Restrictions

Fullywrecked-
Most of the lands we wheel on won't be logged. But even if they were, should someone cut a tree just because they choose to run a full size rig on a narrow trail? Hell no!! If you can't run the trail, as is, don't go there. It's that simple.

You make it sound like every fullsize guy will cut to a tree to make the trail!

I wheel a fullsize! I'm proud of that fact to because when i wheel, I wheel what i can run, what trails i can, when i can! I dont cram my rig anywhere i have been wheeling my truck for about a year and half now from completly stock to this(below pic). I have managed minimal body damage in that time!

I think U make a point about some redneck taking his rustbucket cehvy or ford to dump a sofa in the woods, that happens all over, but wouldnt a gate keeper help this like rock, and stumps???? I dont think some old guy is gonna take the time to make the entrance huge just to dump a sofe HE WOULD FRICKEN JUST LEAVE IT THERE!

You obviously haven't been to reiter in awhile!!!!:eeek: CAuse at the fall cleanup there were no vehicles Reiter was the cleanest its been in a long time!! IT takes a group of people actually getting involved and spreading the word!!! Reiter supports many wheelers of all kinds and everyone does there part to keep it open and clean! I think a Asshats can mess things up but not to bad that a few people that care cantt fix and help repiar the damage. . . We need the help of more persuasive people in higher places if we ever want to win this battle!!!

FOR FUTURE REFERENCE NOT ALL FULLSIZE GUYS ARE CLOWNS AND MOST WHEEL RESPONSIBLY JUST LIKE ANYBODY ELSE:fawkdancesmiley:
I Will Never Take My Fullsize Down The ELbe BUSYWILD or anything:corn:
 
:awesomework:
You make it sound like every fullsize guy will cut to a tree to make the trail!


FOR FUTURE REFERENCE NOT ALL FULLSIZE GUYS ARE CLOWNS AND MOST WHEEL RESPONSIBLY JUST LIKE ANYBODY ELSE:fawkdancesmiley:
I Will Never Take My Fullsize Down The ELbe BUSYWILD or anything:corn:


your truck will do the rest of elbe, fullsizes rule the swamp trail, and trail rig guys hate the mud on that trail. so let the fullsizes rule the swamp!!!:awesomework:
 
80" bulge to bulge and 39.5" tires. i personally have become accustomed to going slower over the trails. saves my neck, and 4 years of running trails in arizona you get used to taking your time. i'm in no hurry, i'm there to enjoy the trail and scenery of the woods. if i want to do the trails fast i get on my atv or i'll get another dirtbike.

as for joining the pnw4wda, can you actually do that and not be part of a club? haven't looked into it in years.
 
:haha: :haha: :haha: Oh **** this thread is a killer:haha: :haha: :haha:

So... Today...
There are a bunch of us, that are whining about a bunch of us, because of the size of our rigs, and we know that we are mo'bettah because of the size of our rigs...

But... Yesterday or the day before...
We posted up pictures on this very site of our size rigs deliberately being pushed though places where we have debarked the trees and dug out the roots, driven through the water... And just generally been destructive.

But... it is all our fault because of the largeness of our rigs!
And...it is ok for us because our rigs are smaller!
Nevermind that the smaller rigs are doing cumulatively more, not less damage!
It has to be us in our large rigs because there are fewer of us, and therefore easier to make 'us', the dreaded THEM. :flipoff:

In the mean time some GAG has profited by another million dollars:looser:








One of my favorite books is The Sneeches! :awesomework:
 
:haha: :haha: :haha: Oh **** this thread is a killer:haha: :haha: :haha:

So... Today...
There are a bunch of us, that are whining about a bunch of us, because of the size of our rigs, and we know that we are mo'bettah because of the size of our rigs...

But... Yesterday or the day before...
We posted up pictures on this very site of our size rigs deliberately being pushed though places where we have debarked the trees and dug out the roots, driven through the water... And just generally been destructive.

But... it is all our fault because of the largeness of our rigs!
And...it is ok for us because our rigs are smaller!
Nevermind that the smaller rigs are doing cumulatively more, not less damage!
It has to be us in our large rigs because there are fewer of us, and therefore easier to make 'us', the dreaded THEM. :flipoff:

In the mean time some GAG has profited by another million dollars:looser:








One of my favorite books is The Sneeches! :awesomework:



awesome:awesomework: :flipoff: :flipoff:
again awesome:beer:
 
Hey all,
I started a thread over on Timber Crawlers and got everyone all butt hurt about this issue. I know no one wants to see any kind of restricitions but if some had to be imposed what would the common ground be? Not looking for a pissing match or any flaming.

I was also told I am in the minority with a 76" or less width from the outside of tire to the outside of tire. I thought this was track width but just to make sure trying to discribe it in a different way.

So lets keep it civil and post your thoughts.


Here is the original post ................

Lets not turn this into a pissin match of tire size..........

Keep it on track or the post will be closed or moved.........:cool:
 
If any of you believe the 1-2% of land we wheel on and enjoy the outdoors has any negative effect on the enviroment you need to learn what suicide is all about. Then take an even larger look and realize that on that 1-2% of land that you using your only driving on under 2% of that land with our/your ORV's.

What happens to alot of this land when they log it. More of that is drivin on and lots of mud is made............and those tree's you were edriving around so carefully are now headed to the mill to build things we all need (like the thing you reside in......your home and paper to wipe your ass). Have you ever seen what a forrest fire does to the area? Have you ever been back a couple years later..........It has all grown back up and tree's are on their way back to being tree's. TREE'S ARE A RENEWABLE RESOURCE. ITS LIKE FARMING! Whats next..............restrictions on cutting down crops for food.

Quite wasting your time and putting restrictions on yourself and try to get people who have correct views in the right places to keep it open.

Fawk width restrictions. Fawk tire size restrictions and Fawk the Sierra Club and anyone who trys to take away my freedom.:flipoff:


WOW! Fullywrecked actually wrote something that I agree with, write it on the callender......Maybe you're not QUITE the shitstain I previousely thought.:flipoff:
 
. Anyone remember following Bobby Long when he had his John Deere Toyota? That rig left tracks you could see from outer space.


Ya I remember that, Do you remember those mud holes were there long before John Deere? Were you there when Eble Trails were built? I helped build nearly every trail there. Do you remember when I went with DNR, Gary Marshal and the some other PNW members with John Deere and a Couple "well equiped" Flat fenders with 33" tires to see who did most of the damage to the trail? Because we were accussed of wrecking the trail then. The DNR found that the smaller rigs with 33" tires did more damage by bathtubing the mud out of the holes and pulling water out of the holes and bringing in more water, where I could IDLE through with my larger tires. I even got a letter of appoligies from the PNW for accusing me of destryoing the trails. I sold John Deere because it was so boring and actually did get tired of hearing guys like you snivel and bitch all the time.:beatdeadhorse:
 
Bobby-
You were certainly roasted for having something very unusual. The tractor tires did leave huge marks but the rig went very well. You left us behind in the snow so bad it was embarassing.
I mentioned your rig because it was an example of excess. You did what very few would do- you understood the value of bad PR and did something about it.
Be clear about 1 thing- I'm not sniveling. I'm not bitching about someone being bigger, badder or more talented than someone else. I'm concerned with people going places that could jeopardize trail use for all of us. We are one the few areas left in the US with thousands of acres of public lands on which to wheel. Because we are on public lands we are constantly under a microscope. Many other groups (hikers, horsemen, cross country skiers, etc) usually consider use a nuisance. Almost everywhere else wheelin is done on private lands. We're really lucky here but few of us seem to understand that.
Rick's initial question was a good one.... (paraphrased)how wide should I make my track? The PNW has used 76" because it can go over all the bridges they've built without damaging them. I think anything under 80" should be ok but even 80" can be reallly tight in some areas.

I might be a little close to this to be very objective. I've been very lucky and have wheeled many different places around the U.S. I haven't been in the northeast but I've been most other places. Most other places are really lucky to have some private 3,000 acre tract. Some areas you've read about are less than 1,000 acres. I've brought people from many different states here to wheel and they are always amazed at how lucky we are to have wide open, free spaces to wheel. We have one of best places in the country to wheel. I know what we have and don't want to lose it.

Consider the horse dead.:beatdeadhorse:
 
Ya I remember that, Do you remember those mud holes were there long before John Deere? Were you there when Eble Trails were built? I helped build nearly every trail there. Do you remember when I went with DNR, Gary Marshal and the some other PNW members with John Deere and a Couple "well equiped" Flat fenders with 33" tires to see who did most of the damage to the trail? Because we were accussed of wrecking the trail then. The DNR found that the smaller rigs with 33" tires did more damage by bathtubing the mud out of the holes and pulling water out of the holes and bringing in more water, where I could IDLE through with my larger tires. I even got a letter of appoligies from the PNW for accusing me of destryoing the trails. I sold John Deere because it was so boring and actually did get tired of hearing guys like you snivel and bitch all the time.:beatdeadhorse:

Good. Good. Good Stuff. :awesomework:
 
Reading all this brings up the old saying for guns. Guns dont kill people..People kill people. Just like wheels, width, motors or any of that dont ruin trails its the people who ruin the trails. I have a 4 wheeler trail on my property and its tight. I take my toyota up it. I run 37-14.5 toyos stock with toy axle with 1.5 wheel spacers on each side on 15x10 rims. There some spots where I have to do a few extra turns and make a squeeze but im not tearin it up and you can barely tell im there. If you want the trails to be better police the people not the rigs. Just my 2 cents.
 
So this thread was started to ask if the were trail width restrictions what size should they be, It doesnt matter if your running 54" tires... what should the width be?
 
I myself have seen many width go through the trails. I believe a good realistic width would be 82" and below. for the majority I think they would pass. I dont know what to say about the full size rigs but if they make a law I think fullsize will be screwed.

I run at 80" with 110" wheel base and can turn very sharp. I rearly rub. I cant say this wheelbase would be good for others this wide.

Which brings up another question. You could be 74" wide but 116" long and you gonna rub more than a guy 82" and 100" long WB?

So do we make 2 sets of rules?
 
I myself have seen many width go through the trails. I believe a good realistic width would be 82" and below. for the majority I think they would pass. I dont know what to say about the full size rigs but if they make a law I think fullsize will be screwed.

I run at 80" with 110" wheel base and can turn very sharp. I rearly rub. I cant say this wheelbase would be good for others this wide.

Which brings up another question. You could be 74" wide but 116" long and you gonna rub more than a guy 82" and 100" long WB?

So do we make 2 sets of rules?

now i can see running into problems with a length rule too though, cus i'm at 125" and have been able to get around the same stuff my friends with 105-112" and better turning radiuses without taking as many back up jockeys or bumping into things.... so do we need to then make a driving rule???:D other than a drivers license which they give out to anyone...:rolleyes:

i feel this is one of those topics that will go round and round forever, but eventually the law will step in and make our minds up for us, instead of letting us enjoy what precious resources we do have...:booo:
 
I can tell you what we're shooting for at Elbe. We are definitely going to a traiL rating system that will have vehicle recommendations. These recommendations will be determined by people who are experienced wheelers and who are familiar with the terrain. However, as mentioned in many posts, a small tired rig on a SWB with aggressive tires, lockers and a winch can manage obstacles that some big rigs cannot, and vice versa. It wouldn't be fair to make a rule that would limit Sami's on the the busy because they may not be big enough but at the same time, a stock 4runner may be running bigger tires and have no business on the Busy. Conversely, a well built rig running full width axles may be able to navigate the busy quite well but a full size rig with the same size tires, but no lockers, winch etc, would also have no business on the busy.

So here's what we're working towards. A trail rating system with any where from 3-5 classifications and where appropriate, dual classifications depending on the size of the vehicle, LWB vs SWB. i.e. The Gotcha might be a moderate difficulty trail for a LWB rig because of a lot of corners with stumps sticking out that can easily rip off rockers and fenders if your not careful, but it's an easy trail for a SWB rig because they can maneuver around everything. Conversley, the Swamp trail will be an extreme trail for SWB and other smaller vehicles, simply because of the mud and the size of the ruts, however, it's perhaps only a difficult trail for the big rigs.

So we're going to be coming up with a trail by trail classification system and rate each trail. These ratings will be on the maps and the will be on new signs at the trail head and trail intersections (hint hint, upcoming work party). No one will have any excuse for getting somewhere that they don't belong and if we accept that MOST people will use common sense, this will stop the unprepared from wandering into trouble and hopefully keep the prepared or bigger, more built rigs on trails suited to their vehicles. We don't want a 44" tired rigS running through Gotcha making holes and trenches in the few muddy spots to ruin the trail for the vehicles that are most likely to run it on a day to day basis.

IF someone deliberatly ignores the trail ratings and ventures in with completely inappropriate vehicles that result in damage, they CAN be fined and heavily. So, take a full size, LWB rig into the busy, beat everything up and get stuck or broken, you can be fined and we are encouraging enforcement. The cost of timely extraction can also be tacked on and it can and will affect the owners ability to get a driver's license. If that full size that got stuck in there last year does so again and results in the same kind of probem, it is feasible that a helicopter is bought in to remove the carcass at the expense of the vehicle owner, regardless of whether or not he WANTS it removed that way.

I hesitate to bring this up but this is important to know. I can speak only for DNR land, but all trees inside the trail corridor are already considered lost by the DNR. That means that accidental rubbing up against the trees, scraping some bark off, etc is NOT going to get the trails closed. They consider those trees, OUR trees. However, when the root system is degraded and the tree becomes sick or dies, it often has to be removed, this is why most of the trees at Elbe have been cut, (excluding logging) for safety, not for big rigs to fit though. This is NOT a license to intentionally damage the trees, not use tree savers etc. Since these trees are part of OUR trails we have a responsibility to maintain them or the trails will just get wider and straighter as time goes on.

By next spring you will see a trail rating system up and running at Elbe, maybe sooner. If you want to be part of that process, attend the next Elbe Focus group meeting. It'll be 7pm on the second Tuesday of November. I'll be posting details when the meeting is finalized. The decisions on trail ratings and vehicle recomendations that go along with that WILL be made at that meeting.
 
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