Batmobile 14 bolt front build

Beerj · Oct 2, 2015

I was quoted 275 - 300 to press old out and new in plus welding. He didn't mention about plus material. :dunno:

Elliott · Oct 2, 2015

Batmobile Will said:
I'm not doing mine but why can't you put your tubes in your self with a 2 1/2 is tube as a true stick ?

You don't true the tubes, and you can't use tube for that anyways, you use a turned, ground and polished rod, but that would be to put on the knuckles. But it takes a large press to push out and in the tubes.

crawlin85cj · Oct 2, 2015

Batmobile 14 bolt front build

WOD will retube your axle AND make sure it is straight. It's worth the few extra bucks to get it done right. The downstream effect of an axle that isn't square will kick your ass in parts cost later...ask me how I know.

2012 Jim's Garage YJ
2013 Wide Open Design WFO
Next one is in the oven!

bjeep · Oct 2, 2015

crawlin85cj said:
WOD will retube your axle AND make sure it is straight. It's worth the few extra bucks to get it done right. The downstream effect of an axle that isn't square will kick your ass in parts cost later...ask me how I know.

2012 Jim's Garage YJ
2013 Wide Open Design WFO
Next one is in the oven!

As posted before WOD is at 800 bucks. I have 250 or less in one I did.
No big ass press needed. Hardest part is drilling out the plug welds.
It would have been easier to have WOD do it. But I am a cheapass. :****:

Beerj · Oct 2, 2015

I've tried drilling them out before. Didn't make it too far. Now that I have a plasma I may revisit that idea.

xjpaddler · Oct 3, 2015

Why drill and press tubes, when you can sleve over?? ( if you want budget )!!!!

800 to retube, and know it is correct is not bad.

Beerj · Oct 4, 2015

You certainly can. That's what I plan on doing. Ball joints and unit bearings are the downsides. But the bearings are pretty huge so they're not that bad. The r&p are a little smaller than a 14bt but I'm gonna see what, if anything, I break before I consider building something else.

Beerj · Oct 4, 2015

Another thing to consider, and this is just something I heard once, is that the extra pinion support bearing on a 14bt was more or less an afterthought. The other 2 pinion bearings are spaced far closer to each other compared to a 60. This allowed too much deflection so they added the 3rd bearing. Again, so I've been told.

I guess the proof is in the pudding if you compare gear failures between axles. And regardless of "why" the 14bt has a nose bearing, it works and is ultimately stronger than a 60.

Neal3000 · Oct 4, 2015

Batmobile Will said:
Ok why not just use the whole super duty axle ?

Holds up for Dale Larson pretty good

Beerj · Oct 4, 2015

You can definitely get big bells. Not sure about 40 spline. And since you're going rcv, you better go with the mega huge, full engagement outers.

Beerj · Oct 4, 2015

Also, I think someone is working on fitting lower ball joints in the upper location.

TBItoy · Oct 4, 2015

Neal3000 said:
Holds up for Dale Larson pretty good

X2

Is he sticking with the SD axle in the new build ?

40 spline d60 spools have been around for years.

http://ktperformance.net/i-14477214-40-spline-spool-for-dana-60-4-56-up.html?gclid=CNPV9ueHqcgCFUIbgQodCqULDQ

Beerj said:
Also, I think someone is working on fitting lower ball joints in the upper location.

Yep, already done. Probably not considered a necessary mod, but good to know it's available.

patooyee · Oct 4, 2015

Beerj said:
Another thing to consider, and this is just something I heard once, is that the extra pinion support bearing on a 14bt was more or less an afterthought. The other 2 pinion bearings are spaced far closer to each other compared to a 60. This allowed too much deflection so they added the 3rd bearing. Again, so I've been told.

I guess the proof is in the pudding if you compare gear failures between axles. And regardless of "why" the 14bt has a nose bearing, it works and is ultimately stronger than a 60.

I doubt it was an after thought. If you believe Steve Gerstner, AAM purchased the designs for the Ford 9" back in the 50's from Ford. They then basically copied it and made everything bigger to make the 14-bolt. There are a bunch of amazing similarities between them when you get down to the engineering level. This is way out of my pay grade but their spline designs are the same / similar, the way the gears are cut are as well. Obviously the third pinion bearing, the threaded carrier bearing collars, removable pinion support, etc. If that is the case its hard to imagine the third bearing being a last-minute addition.

TBItoy · Oct 4, 2015

patooyee said:
I doubt it was an after thought. If you believe Steve Gerstner, AAM purchased the designs for the Ford 9" back in the 50's from Ford. They then basically copied it and made everything bigger to make the 14-bolt. There are a bunch of amazing similarities between them when you get down to the engineering level. This is way out of my pay grade but their spline designs are the same / similar, the way the gears are cut are as well. Obviously the third pinion bearing, the threaded carrier bearing collars, removable pinion support, etc. If that is the case its hard to imagine the third bearing being a last-minute addition.

Refer to the eaton rear end that the 14b is "based" on...

Engineering wise, it looks like an evolutionary step between a ford 9" and a "modern" (70s) 14 bolt.

Neal3000 · Oct 4, 2015

How hard is it to find a Super 60's with the bigger ring gear?

patooyee · Oct 4, 2015

TBItoy said:
Refer to the eaton rear end that the 14b is "based" on...

Engineering wise, it looks like an evolutionary step between a ford 9" and a "modern" (70s) 14 bolt.

Oh yes, forgot about that. Makes even more sense that way.

patooyee · Oct 4, 2015

Neal3000 said:
How hard is it to find a Super 60's with the bigger ring gear?

Only the 4.30, 4.88, 5.13, and 5.38 gearsets were bigger. And only the 450's and 550's came with those ratios. So extremely difficult. And if you did find it it would be 10-lug.

But they recently started making the 4.10 gears in the bigger design. I don't know if they started finding their way into production axles or not. People have theorized that they may eventually start doing 3.73's also, they are just waiting for current inventory to run out, and eventually all Spicer 60 gears will be the bigger ones.

You can buy the bigger gear sets to put in 60's though. They have a completely different part number than the older gears so you can tell which they are. If I was going to mess with that though I would probably just buy Currie 35-spline HP70 gears and be done with it.

TBItoy · Oct 4, 2015

Neal3000 said:
How hard is it to find a Super 60's with the bigger ring gear?

Aren't they only 4.30 ratio?

All the f350 "wide track", f450 and 550 axles I've seen were 4.30

Neal3000 · Oct 4, 2015

patooyee said:
If I was going to mess with that though I would probably just buy Currie 35-spline HP70 gears and be done with it.

That sounds like the way to go. HI pinion, 35 spline, add a load bolt= A badass gearset

patooyee · Oct 4, 2015

Neal3000 said:
That sounds like the way to go. HI pinion, 35 spline, add a load bolt= A badass gearset

There are 700hp KOH buggies running that gear set in the REAR that aren't breaking. The Curries gears are made of some sort of special alloy that is meant to be abused. So beyond being bigger you get that. I'm pretty sure something like that is not available for 14-bolts.

Is it stronger than a 14-bolt? No clue. Just throwing options out there. Coming from rockwells I can say that having a high pinion tends to be underrated by those who have never had one. I see guys dragging driveshafts over rocks and kinking them and feel like I am watching someone just bang their head against a brick wall.