Cage failures

[jeepmauler]

Welding tube to plates and plated sheetmetal just doesn't smell like the hot setup to me. I guess I should throw my fully boxed frame away and start over with a stack of 18 gauge... :haha:

Nope everything but my sliders has plate on the frame. Oh and I have no idea what you're talking about my junk coming apart, not one weld came apart or vivibly cracked. Sure there were bent tubes, you can blame Chris Alston chassisworks for their design work and .134x1.625" tubing, It kept peanut and myself alive and after a bit of time with the porta power it's back into shape to wheel again.

Welding tubes to plate is bad?

For a big fella you can sure back peddle like a mofo:awesomework:

 

[slednecks1124]

It seems like everyone is so stuck on the DOM tubing because of the strength of the material but if that was the case then why aren't all the new cars made out of pure steel??:corn:

Alot of newer cars are made up of composite materials which are not as strong as steel but are designed to flex upon impact. obviously newer cars are not built to withstand roll overs on rocks or trails but lets see what you all have to say.

I am not an expert by any means for building the "perfect wheeler" but I would think that you would want something to give at some point to absorb the impact in a certain place?

What i want to see is a rig with a well built DOM cage duplicate the same stunt as the guy with the yota with the green cage so we can compare :stirpot:

 

[slednecks1124]

ohhh and all this cage talk reminds me....

I was at the florence sand dunes a few weeks ago, there was a guy with a newer yamaha rhino who had removed the whole roll cage but the dumb ass still decided to throw his two kids's car seats in the back and take them out in the dunes for a ride

 

[Binder]

Alot of newer cars are made up of composite materials which are not as strong as steel but are designed to flex upon impact.

Alot of composite materials are stronger than steel, strength to weight....I've always thought that this sport hasn't peaked at it's potential untill rigs chassis are made of carbon fiber...

 

[slednecks1124]

Alot of composite materials are stronger than steel, strength to weight....I've always thought that this sport hasn't peaked at it's potential untill rigs chassis are made of carbon fiber...

Noone would have any money left after paying for carbon fiber, thats why. and half the tards on here would be huffing the fumes of the resin as their building there wheeler :looser:

 

[Jason C]

It seems like everyone is so stuck on the DOM tubing because of the strength of the material but if that was the case then why aren't all the new cars made out of pure steel??:corn:

Alot of newer cars are made up of composite materials which are not as strong as steel but are designed to flex upon impact. obviously newer cars are not built to withstand roll overs on rocks or trails but lets see what you all have to say.

I am not an expert by any means for building the "perfect wheeler" but I would think that you would want something to give at some point to absorb the impact in a certain place?

What i want to see is a rig with a well built DOM cage duplicate the same stunt as the guy with the yota with the green cage so we can compare :stirpot:

Bent axle tube, broken steering arm bolts and 2 blown wheel centers. Chassis fully intact after 60 MPH end over end on the freeway.

Car did outlet mall 2 weeks ago. I would put any one of our cars through that... they get worse treatment from their owners. Ask MAll'er when he decides to do his triple lindie off the top of the gravel pit thinking it is a good idea to launch from the top. than again being alot more stable and lower CG the car most likely would not have lost control like the clapped out yota. :haha:

 

[Fordzuki]

It seems like everyone is so stuck on the DOM tubing because of the strength of the material but if that was the case then why aren't all the new cars made out of pure steel??:corn:

Alot of newer cars are made up of composite materials which are not as strong as steel but are designed to flex upon impact. obviously newer cars are not built to withstand roll overs on rocks or trails but lets see what you all have to say.

The main structures are still steel on most of them, just stuff like core supports and bumper reinforcements are made of composites. This is mainly for initial build cost, and like you said (kind of) so they absorb the impact by crushing instead of transfering it to the passenger compartment. And the steels used in the actual structures of new cars are stronger than DOM.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

Welding tubes to plate is bad?

For a big fella you can sure back peddle like a mofo:awesomework:

Backpeddle? The plates range from 1/8-1/4" depending just what the plate is there for. If its just a tube attachment then it's 1/8", the rear legs of the cage actually bolt to the frame. I used 3 bolt plates and tapped the 1/4" plate that connects the receiver hitch/shackle hanger to the frame. The rear shock mount is just welded directly to the top of the frame though, even if it is over 3/16" thick in that spot... Thats a faaaaar cry from welding a tie in plate to laminated 18 gauge sheetmetal don't ya think? :;



Oh and I do have 3 sticks of .120x1 1/2" DOM to add into the rear portion and for some nose work but I'm only using it because it was $40 a stick. :fawkdancesmiley:

 

[slednecks1124]

The main structures are still steel on most of them, just stuff like core supports and bumper reinforcements are made of composites. This is mainly for initial build cost, and like you said (kind of) so they absorb the impact by crushing instead of transfering it to the passenger compartment. And the steels used in the actual structures of new cars are stronger than DOM.

I dont know that i would definately say its for the cost because there is alot of money spent in tooling & for materials when using composites, I think alot of it has to do with weight also.

But would the ideal cage be something that is strong in certain areas but was also designed to transfer the energy away from the passenger compartment?

 

[Binder]

But would the ideal cage be something that is strong in certain areas but was also designed to transfer the energy away from the passenger compartment?

Ideal if you want a disposable cage.

 

[slednecks1124]

Ideal if you want a disposable cage.

We are talking for a "save your life" cage like said in previous post

 

[Fordzuki]

I dont know that i would definately say its for the cost because there is alot of money spent in tooling & for materials when using composites, I think alot of it has to do with weight also.

But would the ideal cage be something that is strong in certain areas but was also designed to transfer the energy away from the passenger compartment?

Yeah, you brought up a point I left out, and that's weight savings. But in reality does the tooling cost any more than the tooling to stamp steel? I would also gather that steel tooling will wear quicker than composite tooling.

Ideally, yes. The same theory should hold true with cage design as it does with uni-body design, to save the occupants. But in reality, the constant "collisions" in wheeling make this impossible without making some of your cage "consumable".

 

[slednecks1124]

Yeah, you brought up a point I left out, and that's weight savings. But in reality does the tooling cost any more than the tooling to stamp steel? I would also gather that steel tooling will wear quicker than composite tooling.

Ideally, yes. The same theory should hold true with cage design as it does with uni-body design, to save the occupants. But in reality, the constant "collisions" in wheeling make this impossible without making some of your cage "consumable".

I think the tooling cost more for fiberglass than steel. I've worked in a machine shop/fabrication and have seen what is entitled to make some pretty fancy parts from metals.

Alot of people dont know what is entitled in a mass producing fiberglass shop. Theres are alot of expenses there for things like having your moulds made, equipment (chopper guns or injection systems for a LRTM application), materials, labor times for gun operators, mould waxers, finishers, trimmers ect.

But as far as the cage goes.....what do you mean by making your cage consumable?

 

[Pony-boy]

Mike (MightyMouse) of the Broke Bastards did a similar cliff dive
off of the FS Road up at Evans, A few of the Guys here were there to
help us out for that Epic Fail.

That said, Mike's rig was a Full size Chev framed Truggy,
Rolled it threw Trees, Rocks and hit the bottom of the
Cliff 300 feet down with a Thud on a huge downed tree after
rolling approx 7 times. 2 inch and 1 3/4 .120 DOM cage.
He bent the B pillar down about 2 inched and one side tube
on the HoopDick,

Triangulation and Correct welds are key in a good cage.

 

[Pook]

But as far as the cage goes.....what do you mean by making your cage consumable?

You were talking about crunch zones built into your cage. If you build crunch zones and they crunch your going to be rebuilding it all the time.

For your typical roll wheeling you don't want to crunch your cage, you want to roll it back over and keep going with no structural damage.

 

[Spanaway Mudder]

Mike (MightyMouse) of the Broke Bastards did a similar cliff dive
off of the FS Road up at Evans, A few of the Guys here were there to
help us out for that Epic Fail.

That said, Mike's rig was a Full size Chev framed Truggy,
Rolled it threw Trees, Rocks and hit the bottom of the
Cliff 300 feet down with a Thud on a huge downed tree after
rolling approx 7 times. 2 inch and 1 3/4 .120 DOM cage.
He bent the B pillar down about 2 inched and one side tube
on the HoopDick,

Triangulation and Correct welds are key in a good cage.

Thus one of the main reason's why some good friends of mine will never goto Evans (dogpound members)..... heard this story manytimes

 

[japerry]

FAIL

Made out of fence post or something similar. Not enough cross-bracing, etc, etc...

Here is the result of thin tube, and a crappy tube bender (notice the ripples)

There are a lot of guys I know that have thier own 'backyard' cages.. scary as **** if something like falling down a mtn were to occur! :eeek:

 

[Clark]

I heard thru the grapevine that this truck used to be orange until recently, has a smallblock, and that the exocage work was not built by the driver, but was built by Ray-Ray's Offroad... who there have been several posts about his work on here...

I don't know how true any of that is, but it is just what I heard...

Ray is a DOUCHEBAG!!! I thought about him when i saw the bars on the doors, that's his signature:masturbanana[1]:. He still owes me $950 and has my 22re.

I gaurantee the welds, and craftsmanship sucked big time.

 

[Fordzuki]

I think the tooling cost more for fiberglass than steel. I've worked in a machine shop/fabrication and have seen what is entitled to make some pretty fancy parts from metals.

Alot of people dont know what is entitled in a mass producing fiberglass shop. Theres are alot of expenses there for things like having your moulds made, equipment (chopper guns or injection systems for a LRTM application), materials, labor times for gun operators, mould waxers, finishers, trimmers ect.

But as far as the cage goes.....what do you mean by making your cage consumable?

Pook said it, basically, in order to save the occupants more efficiently (not relying on luck :redneck you would need crumple zones designed to crush during a roll, while the "structure" around the occupants stays intact. These crush zones would be the "consumables", while the occupant structure would stay (nearly) undamaged.
But also, as Pook stated, with the amount of soft rolls/flops that a wheeling rig sees, it wouldn't be cost effective to build in this way. A long roll like the toyota encountered would be the only time you would want crumple zones.

And fwiw, if a cage is built with no give whatsoever, the occupants will be jarred around alot more than if the cage does deform A LITTLE. This is why they don't build brick shithouses on wheels anymore.

 

[Pony-boy]

Thus one of the main reason's why some good friends of mine will never goto Evans (dogpound members)..... heard this story manytimes

It was a fluke accident, on a corner with black Ice.
I like Evans in the summer. Never again in the winter.........