Opinions on unions....but unicorns are (fill in the blank)

[pholmann]

That's what's great about America, if you don't like the way something is ran, then quit or organize YOURSELVES and strike. Enough people do that, then you'll see conditions change again. Boom, you just eliminated the need for a union.

Or just quit and start your own company.

So you basically just described a union????

 

[pholmann]

Re:

Not wanting to argue with anyone, but I'm having a hard time seeing where union or nonunion has anything to do with safety. I'll use the example of being a lineman; When your working out of the bucket, or standing on the pole on hooks, how does whether your in the union or not, have anything to do with how you do your job? A good lineman shouldn't need osha or a union to do their job safely. You either do it right or try to cut corners on your own free will. It's all based on personal decisions. You obviously are a good lineman, just judging by how you notice and see the importance of others not working safely. However, I feel like that comes from your own common sense, not a union or osha. You've been trained and see the importance of doing things the right way.

I just think every aspect of the union is severely outdated. When the point of safety was brought up, I started trying to consider it. There are millions of jobs. I feel like safety is a personal decision on most all of those jobs.

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Well stated.

 

[sledneck]

Re:

Not wanting to argue with anyone, but I'm having a hard time seeing where union or nonunion has anything to do with safety. I'll use the example of being a lineman; When your working out of the bucket, or standing on the pole on hooks, how does whether your in the union or not, have anything to do with how you do your job? A good lineman shouldn't need osha or a union to do their job safely. You either do it right or try to cut corners on your own free will. It's all based on personal decisions. You obviously are a good lineman, just judging by how you notice and see the importance of others not working safely. However, I feel like that comes from your own common sense, not a union or osha. You've been trained and see the importance of doing things the right way.

I just think every aspect of the union is severely outdated. When the point of safety was brought up, I started trying to consider it. There are millions of jobs. I feel like safety is a personal decision on most all of those jobs.

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Im 100% guessing so take its for what is worth. Non union guy goes to the job site tells his boss he doesn't feel safe or does not have the proper safety equipment to do the necessary task at hand. The GM can tell him to do it or he in result could loose his job.

 

[kmcminn]

I will ask again who all has been on a job that osha showed up on?

 

[tyldyl12]

Re: Re: Opinions on unions....but unicorns are (fill in the blank)

I will ask again who all has been on a job that osha showed up on?

Honestly, I've only heard of them showing up AFTER accidents.......

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[sledneck]

OSHA is in and out of our plant all the damn time. It's completely ridiculous all the stuff these big companies have to go through to maintain certain safety ratings. No BS were not even allowed to use any kind of spray cans in our building, they claim there are to many harmful toxins... Yet there are 200 people welding all day long lol.

 

[5BrothersFabrication]

So you basically just described a union????

Im 100% guessing so take its for what is worth. Non union guy goes to the job site tells his boss he doesn't feel safe or does not have the proper safety equipment to do the necessary task at hand. The GM can tell him to do it or he in result could loose his job.

Both of these can be answered with the same thing I said before. If you are a trade worker and conditions are unsafe, you and the other employees can say, "buy us safety harnesses or get ****ed." More than likely he will buy a couple dozen safety harnesses or have to explain to a customer why nobody is on his jobsite today. It's effectively taken the place of a a ****-ass union, made the jobsite safe, company and customer stay happy, and you didn't give a damn dime out of your paycheck to the union and thus the to the democrat party.

I will ask again who all has been on a job that osha showed up on?

Patrick, didn't OSHA show up at Teton a couple times and make them do the yellow stripes on the floor, chains on the doors, and a rail around the pit?

 

[5BrothersFabrication]

And as for the Kool-Aid comment, there is no- ''Well, MY union isn't like that." It's like saying, "Well, MY senator isn't corrupt." Bullshit, yes they are. Legal robbery, and an unnecessary, outdated practice.

 

[ratedX]

In our trade you go through a 4 to 5 yr apprentship and in non union which might not be all cases but 19 yr old kids with 10 weeks experience are heading up the pole all by themselves to work out hot primary and it's just scary as hell. I'm not non union bashing but I'll stick up for what I do

 

[WTH]

First off, please delete this immediatly if anyone feels this is a **** starter. A group of individuals are trying to get it started at my work place and i am just curious. I never would have thought in a million years my place of business would be looking at becoming unionized. I feel we are more than adequatly paid, great benefits, great insurance, more leave than i can use. Apparently not everyone at my employment thinks the same. I tried to ask the union representative 3 questions. How much are dues? I was told it depends. He wouldn't give me an amount. I asked about benefits. He handed me a list that had everything on it that i currently am already recieving from my employer. When i asked him for any other benefits because i already had these he told me he was not going to answer anymore of my anti union bullshit questions...,Again, i am not trying to start anything. Just trying to gather as much information to educate myself. Please delete if this upsets or offends anyone. Thank you.

I have gone through a few campaigns at the company I work for. I have had some training on dealing with campaigns. Union reps can say anything but they can guarantee nothing. If it gets voted in benefits and pay during negotiations can go up, stay the same, or go down. You can probably count on if the union "wins" at one thing during the negotiation process you are going to loose at something else. The company is not supposed to promise anything during a union campaign. They should pretty much say nothing is guaranteed, things can go up, stay the same or go down. I also don't know when your company gives out raises but I would expect that to be put on hold if this really gets going. Can't give the impression company is trying to "buy" votes. I am sure I have some information at work I could get for you if it gets to the point you need more. There have been 3-4 campaigns at my work over 20 years never gets voted in, usually a few folks that grew up in union hoses that try to push it.

 

[kmcminn]

And as for the Kool-Aid comment, there is no- ''Well, MY union isn't like that." It's like saying, "Well, MY senator isn't corrupt." Bullshit, yes they are. Legal robbery, and an unnecessary, outdated practice.

5bros, I respect your opinion everyone has one. We understand you don't have any use for one repairing tractor trailers, I can see where you wouldn't need one for that job. Probably not a real hazardous job, you probably work in a place that you don't get rained on when dealing with electricity, probably not work long hours dealing with high voltage that can kill you instantly. Your electricty is on cause union workers, and I would bet you are one the first to bitch when it goes out and sing the praise when it comes on.The way you keep stating your view is starting to sound like all the Democrats they think cause it is their opinion we should all feel the same way. Not every company needs a union but some do.

Sorry if you don't like how I see it from my side fence.

 

[WTH]

Atleast it goves you a voice that you can't have under no union.

How so?

Common talk among unions.

If you can not walk into your boss's office and say I have a problem then you are working for the wrong company.

Only power a union has is the threat of a strike.

If your company does not have a good safety program, talk about it. Come up with a solution if you want to and take it to the leadership team. I find it hard to believe that a company would truly reject good safety ideas.

 

[WTH]

I will ask again who all has been on a job that osha showed up on?

I have.


It is just the thought of them showing for most places.


Who here has ever called OSHA and said come to my job, I do not feel safe?

 

[Bama]

Go get a job in a non union coal mine...... Come back after a week and lets hear your opinion then..

 

[WTH]

Like others have stated I am sure there are some jobs where a union may still be needed.


OP if you have any questions PM me and I will give you the non kool-aid answers. ;D

Seriously these threads about unions always turn into arguments. Each side feels strongly and think they are right. Best thing to do is do your research and make your own decision.

I'm out before this turns into a batman tread, there will be no winners here guaranteed! Just a bunch of arguing back and forth.

 

[Shortbus]

In our trade you go through a 4 to 5 yr apprentship and in non union which might not be all cases but 19 yr old kids with 10 weeks experience are heading up the pole all by themselves to work out hot primary and it's just scary as hell. I'm not non union bashing but I'll stick up for what I do

This is where the safety deal comes in, you're not doing something on your own until you are fully trained. If you're trained the wrong way you may think it's the right and safe way. Yes, some places really overdo this and it looks like 5 people watching a job get done. And many non union companies have great training programs established, some do not. It's really up to what you and your company do for a living. And NO you are never guaranteed anything, you can't be, especially when a union is trying to come in. There's a lot that can be lost if one is or is not established. If you have decent safety and pay chances are you have very little to gain and will give something up to get that. Osha is gov ran its not always going to help in every situation. If they do come in you get a list of minor and major violations, you can then dispute the ruling based on loop holes. If you don't comply you pay a fine - the fine is not a flat rate for similar violations, but that's no surprise in a gov ran anything.

Glow tape and emergency lights are only required in main aisles. What about someone who works is other areas? Many companies goabove osha as all should because it's just a minimum code, like does hrew and emt qualify as a cage? Maybe but dom is safer.

 

[pholmann]

Patrick, didn't OSHA show up at Teton a couple times and make them do the yellow stripes on the floor, chains on the doors, and a rail around the pit?

Sure did. They come to the school too.

 

[onetoncrawler]

Re: Re: Opinions on unions....but unicorns are (fill in the blank)

I will ask again who all has been on a job that osha showed up on?

Me , have a few souvenirs from non compliant hardware

Side note..

Only union job I ever had was Kroger, worked there a cpl months when I turned 16. It was ridiculous what some of the guys got away with and were able to get there job back. Prime example of where a union isn't needed.

 

[85toyo]

They showed up on a job site when I was doing commercial construction right out of high school. I was around 60' ,15' above the platform of a crank up scaffold, taking down sections of the towers when a line of shiny white hard hats came walking up on the job site. None of us had harnesses on and my boss yelled at us to get down so we hauled ass and finished that project on a Saturday. Never did hear anything else about it.

 

[civicmindedex79]

How so?

Common talk among unions.

If you can not walk into your boss's office and say I have a problem then you are working for the wrong company.

Only power a union has is the threat of a strike.

If your company does not have a good safety program, talk about it. Come up with a solution if you want to and take it to the leadership team. I find it hard to believe that a company would truly reject good safety ideas.


I have been in a few jobs that aren't union basically what has already been said. If you goto managment in a right to work state amd tell them your concerns you might be heard and you might be told to hit the bricks. I like the idea of knowing I have the opportunity to take things to an arbitrator if Inhave a valid complaint/point. Its just a system of checks and balances to me.

As for the only power union has is strike comment. I would guess over 90% of modern contracts have language to pervent strikes AND lock-outs by the company. Obviously all that goes out the window when you are out from under a contract and usually still have an evergreen clause on top of that.

Companys are not always open to people just coming in and saying their safety is crap (even if you have the data tonprove it) and you are wanting to make them spend mega bucks to improve it. Yea the if you arent happy find you another job is always there but not always feasible.

I am obvioisly not trying to convince anyone to quit their job or vote a union in. But the OP ask for opinions so here they are.