Rear steer help

marczuk · Apr 23, 2015

On my buggy I am putting rear steer. An I installed it as Psc web page showed. The valve I was told at northern tool was a open center valve.
Ok so what it is doin is when I turn the front axle to full lock. The back axle quickly turns to lock. With out touching the joystick. Is this something in the valve? I bypassed the rear steer valve and the front works fine. So I must have a bad valve. Please help thanks.

marczuk · Apr 23, 2015

TBItoy · Apr 23, 2015

what valve is it?

pic?

When you turn to full lock, no more flow can go through the orbital, and you are spiking pressure in the system,

Therefore it sounds like the spool in the rear steer valve is stuck to one side. (or if it has a detent handle like many log splitter valves, make sure the handle is not pushed to the detent side... if that is the case, remove the detent function...)

Take it apart and look around in it, or buy another $70 valve.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200578559_200578559

marczuk · Apr 27, 2015

Ok here is a pic of the valve. An in the video it show every time I turn lock
The Valve moves it self. I removed the little balls in the detent. Do I need to remove anything else? Any help would be great.

smbroady82 · Apr 27, 2015

Looks like you have a ghost on your hands Marc...

marczuk · Apr 27, 2015

smbroady82 said:
Looks like you have a ghost on your hands Marc...

Lol dude. I have no clue what the problem is.

marczuk · May 1, 2015

And if anyone has any ideas. Please let me know. I've been trying different things all week an nothing......
The power steering pump is reverse rotation bc it is out of a honda civic.

paradisepwoffrd · May 1, 2015

Re:

Can you show how you routed the hoses front& rear. Using a 4 or 5 port orbital?

marczuk · May 1, 2015

4 port. This is what I followed

halcat · May 1, 2015

You can google PSC and it gives you every option

Elliott · May 1, 2015

Are you running single pump or duals, and also single ended Rams or double ended ones?

marczuk · May 1, 2015

Single pump and single ram. It acts like the system surges when I turn to full lock.
Could it be in my steering valve or the rear steer valve?

paradisepwoffrd · May 1, 2015

Re:

Without seeing the setup in person, my guess would be:
- T & P ports reversed on spool valve or
- pressure reliefs/detents in spool valve can't hold pressure when you hit lock and pump spikes

marczuk · May 1, 2015

I've tried swapping the ports it gets worse. So what do I do about the detent. Do I get a stronger spring?

Elliott · May 2, 2015

I'm betting its the single ram. The single and double act different. If you watch your fluid in the res on a single ended ram it will fill up one way and go down on the other direction, a double will just flow the fluid both directions, the level doesn't change. So when your single ended ram strokes out its diverting the extra pressure to the rear steer cylinder. I could be wrong on this but I'm betting your going to have to add another pump to get it to work right. And that diagram is for a double ended ram setup I would call them and see if it would be the same for singles

marczuk · May 2, 2015

Thanks. I did call Psc but not about that. I'll do it Monday morning. But I've seen rear steer with single ended rams. But I don't know.
Could it be in the orbital valve. With the rear steer bypassed it works fine. But as soon as you hook it up its goes to ****.
The orbital was a closed center but I had a it reworked to make it a open. Read that thread from here on hardline.

b.boyd · May 2, 2015

If i understand , you say once the front turns to full lock the rear "turns on its own" to full lock witbout engaging your joystick. Is this correct? If so, this is not a problem of single ended ram, nor, is it a problem of one pump. I would replace the valve, particularly when you say "you were told " this valve is the one you show in the picture. Otherwise, the only way the rear should be getting fluid to move the cylinder is through the directional valve. If you plumbed as psc shows this can not happen unless the valve is not closing off the passage to divert fluid to rear ports. This is would be why it is not issue of a single ended ram OR just one pump. The only way the rear ram knows what to do,regardless of single or dual end ram or pump(s), is if the rear fluid circuit is opened, or not closing completely shut to allow fluid to move actively into the rear circuit. If you dead head the front your raising pressure in the system and it sounds like that it is pushing fluid into the rear circuit. This would explain why when you bypassed the directional valve to remove it from the fluid circuit that it worked fine with front only Feel free to pm me.

Shortbus · May 2, 2015

Elliott said:
I'm betting its the single ram. The single and double act different. If you watch your fluid in the res on a single ended ram it will fill up one way and go down on the other direction, a double will just flow the fluid both directions, the level doesn't change. So when your single ended ram strokes out its diverting the extra pressure to the rear steer cylinder. I could be wrong on this but I'm betting your going to have to add another pump to get it to work right. And that diagram is for a double ended ram setup I would call them and see if it would be the same for singles

I'm guessing you're meaning single acting and double acting.

If not I partially disagree. If you have a single ended cylinder - with same size bore for both directions - then the fluid will act the exact same way as a double ended. The center on a double ended cylinder remains stationary and you have a connection to go to each knuckle. That's the only difference.

If you're using a single ended cylinder as a single acting ram to say lift a piece of equipment and gravity instead of hydraulic pressure causes the return then yes, the fluid level goes down when you lift and fluid level rises as you let the equipment fall. Also, if the bore is different on each side of cylinder the fluid level will vary. These are mainly used for when you want high force in one direction but high speed in the other. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have one of these.

For your problem. What I understand is the handle for rear system is in center and then it moves to one side and the rear wheels move only when you have front at full Lock. If so like said before seems like problem is in the log splitter valve. Could be detent issue or need stiffer spring due to when pressure spikes the rear valve sees your pumps max pressure and has to have relief. I'd try another rear valve.
You may need a higher rated rear valve. Also, Your relief valve in the pump could be contributing. It could be stuck or it has too stiff of a spring and the pressure generated is more than your rear valve can handle. If this is the case if you do upgrade rear valve you will either damage pump or the fluid will find another way to relieve pressure (blow line or seals).

Toddy · May 2, 2015

Gotta be the valve. Some body missed and oring or something.

Try holding the handle in the middle while you turn the wheel to lock. If it still moves it's a o ring or something inside the valve. If it doesn't move might be a detent. I know on a log splitter one direction will pop the valve back to the middle when the cylinder comes back. Sounds like what's happening to you.