14 bolt front build thread and tech help

redneckengineered · Aug 16, 2016

How big are the stock 05+ brake parts? I'm running factory early 90s Ford dual piston calipers and rotors on my HP60 now. If they're comparable in size I'll stick to the factory stuff and save the money.

Beerj · Aug 16, 2016

They're pretty big. The only thing I could say off the top of my head is my calipers have about 3/8" clearance to a 17" wheel.

Beerj · Aug 16, 2016

And for the hub caps, I would bet Weaver Fab would sell just the covers. When used with their slug kit they have a big piece of probably 2" round stock on the back side but it's a separate piece that's pressed in. They're pretty good to work with. They sent me a raw set since I was going custom anodizing on them anyway.

TBItoy · Aug 16, 2016

redneckengineered said:
How big are the stock 05+ brake parts? I'm running factory early 90s Ford dual piston calipers and rotors on my HP60 now. If they're comparable in size I'll stick to the factory stuff and save the money.

I'd say they are 25% bigger overall.

For reference,

A 2005 Rotor weighs 32 Lbs
A 1995 Rotor weighs 22 Lbs

94xjsport94 · Aug 16, 2016

Plus the bigger bracket and dual piston caliper. I can get pics and measurements later. Mine is without wheels and tires at the moment.

RustyC · Aug 16, 2016

I was able to do this on a 99-04 axle. It did lighten things up a little but the rotors are still heavy as hell. Performance using a hyroboost booster is outstanding. I would be happy using the same caliper setup with a lighter rotor.
I would think something similar could be done on the 05 up.

(http://www.hardlinecrawlers.com/forums/index.php?topic=38279.0)

94xjsport94 · Aug 16, 2016

What MC are you guys running?

patooyee · Aug 16, 2016

redneckengineered said:
How big are the stock 05+ brake parts? I'm running factory early 90s Ford dual piston calipers and rotors on my HP60 now. If they're comparable in size I'll stick to the factory stuff and save the money.

I believe your rotors are currently 12.56" dia.

Stock '05 are 13.66".

The calipers are a similar design. So figure if you are going to use the stock 05+ brakes with your current wheels you will lose roughly .55" of space between your current caliper and your new one.

The stock brakes are heavy, but in terms of 1-ton brakes are probably some of the best ever made. If weight wasn't a concern you would be hard-pressed to find anything better. Especially considering that your current MC setup will probably work with them.

I'm personally hoping that you come up with a lighter cheap option that I can copy though.

Right now my plan is to drill the stock rotors out and cut the back off of them in the lathe to lighten them up. Don't know about calipers at that point yet. What I'm building is way smaller and lighter than yours.

The-Boss · Aug 16, 2016

I don't have time to search right now, but from memory I recall the 05+ SD axle thread on Pirate covering this topic a few times. My takeaway was the 04 calipers are more than adequate on any crawler/bouncer and lighter and lower profile than the 05 calipers. I was going to look into making a bracket for my buddies rig but haven't got that project any where near the top of my list.

patooyee · Aug 16, 2016

The 04 rotor is 13". I'm sure it's marginally lighter but if I were running an 05+ axle I don't know that those few ounces would matter enough to make a whole new caliper mount.

My discussion on the pirate thread was in conjunction with using a lighter caliper of some type. But I don't think anyone ever found a caliper that worked great that was much lighter. I think someone made a GM caliper work but that's not that much lighter.

cdemart2 · Aug 16, 2016

I'm extremely happy with the Spidertrax/Wilwood combo on my kingpin 60, and will carry it over to the 609 I'm planning on building with later super duty outers.

Stops awesome, super light and wear parts like pads or rebuild kits are cheap and readily available quickly. Not the cheapest, but one of those "buy once cry once" type of things.

The-Boss · Aug 16, 2016

patooyee said:
The 04 rotor is 13". I'm sure it's marginally lighter but if I were running an 05+ axle I don't know that those few ounces would matter enough to make a whole new caliper mount.

My discussion on the pirate thread was in conjunction with using a lighter caliper of some type. But I don't think anyone ever found a caliper that worked great that was much lighter. I think someone made a GM caliper work but that's not that much lighter.

10-4 I know my goals were to use a 16.5 H1 wheels so maybe I was leaning more because it was potentially a lower profile setup requiring less grinding. I do remember those points being mentioned but obviously forgot to what degree without revisiting it.
Thanks

patooyee · Aug 16, 2016

The-Boss said:
10-4 I know my goals were to use a 16.5 H1 wheels so maybe I was leaning more because it was potentially a lower profile setup requiring less grinding. I do remember those points being mentioned but obviously forgot to what degree without revisiting it.
Thanks

Ah yes. Smaller wheels would be another good reason to go with those. I remember now!

94xjsport94 · Aug 16, 2016

A recentered 16.5 with 3.5" BS Fits my 05+ fine.

sleepsontoilet · Aug 16, 2016

If you're buying a housing, retubing, new gears, new carrier, etc is it still cheaper/stronger than just buying a fabricated housing and a 9/10" diff? It seems like it would be heavier, and more limited on diff placement than a fabricated housing also. Trying to learn, not start a passing match.

TBItoy · Aug 16, 2016

Re:

10" Gear works diff 5.43 35 spline pinion W/ 40 spline spool is $3000.

Vs

$1200 -$1500 for 40 spline 14b spool, gears, bearings, yoke, diff cover.

Housing and everything else out is a wash. Approximately. At least until you start looking at the higher end fabbed housings...

So you can easily save about $2k+ overall.

With the 9/10" you also have the option of spending about $4200 and getting a gear works HP10 diff W/ 40 spline spool, 5.43 35 spline pinion

So yes, there is a savings.

$1500-1800+ will go a long ways toward building a bomber 14b straight rear axle. Spool and shafts at least.

redneckengineered · Aug 16, 2016

sleepsontoilet said:
If you're buying a housing, retubing, new gears, new carrier, etc is it still cheaper/stronger than just buying a fabricated housing and a 9/10" diff? It seems like it would be heavier, and more limited on diff placement than a fabricated housing also. Trying to learn, not start a passing match.

Yep, it's definitely cheaper. I've built a 40 spline Torq Super 14 for the rear of my buggy so I have a pretty good idea. The costs on the fabricated housings add up too after you add diff plating and other options. When you start with a junkyard 14 around $200 you got a pretty deep slush fund to retube and built it how you want before you get into the cost of a Spidertrax. We won't even talk about Tubeworks or the uber bling stuff.

sleepsontoilet · Aug 16, 2016

redneckengineered said:
Yep, it's definitely cheaper. I've built a 40 spline Torq Super 14 for the rear of my buggy so I have a pretty good idea. The costs on the fabricated housings add up too after you add diff plating and other options. When you start with a junkyard 14 around $200 you got a pretty deep slush fund to retube and built it how you want before you get into the cost of a Spidertrax. We won't even talk about Tubeworks or the uber bling stuff.

Makes sense then, I'm just no where near that in either of my fab9s so I figured I'd ask. Granted mine are only 3" 3/8ths housings with LP nodular Yukon chunks. Still look forward to seeing what you build, maybe one day I'll need that much axle and your leg work will help.