Horsepower questions

CHASMAN9 · Aug 19, 2011

Thats alcohol running for a second or two more toliet bowls than carbs. EFI is where its at for almost anything, but it takes some tuning effort. What you gain is control over every aspect of fuel and air delivery... flow is only limited by how big your tb is and or injector size.

ually top fuel is injected, but most drag racing set ups are mechanical injection, the newer trend being computer controlled for more tuneability.pro stock, some bracket cars, and slot of others do still run carbs.Look up rons flying toilet, and rons terminator, that's what most run around this area. Problem with running mechanical injection on a crawler is the barrel valve, your either going to be idleing or wide open, but I guess that would be perfect for some!

Cool, thanks guys. Just got an educatiion. :dblthumb:

Macman · Aug 21, 2011

A well tuned fuel injection setup will make more power because as Jimmy said you can control the complete fuel trim (ie through out the complete power curve of the engine) Carbs you control it with air bleeds & jets that can't be adjusted at diff rpm's. A well tuned EFI setup is alays the ticket for a guy that isn't a tuning guru. Again it compensates for the different in air & such. Mark you need to find a shop that has a rear wheel dyno and knows what they are doing tuning high HP F.I. systems. Fast & Big Stuff will make some serious HP if tuned correctly. Also with the wrong tune you can easily lose 50-100 HP if the tune is way off. Seen it done when I used to drag race.

doctordick · Aug 21, 2011

Macman said:
A well tuned fuel injection setup will make more power because as Jimmy said you can control the complete fuel trim (ie through out the complete power curve of the engine) Carbs you control it with air bleeds & jets that can't be adjusted at diff rpm's. A well tuned EFI setup is alays the ticket for a guy that isn't a tuning guru. Again it compensates for the different in air & such. Mark you need to find a shop that has a rear wheel dyno and knows what they are doing tuning high HP F.I. systems. Fast & Big Stuff will make some serious HP if tuned correctly. Also with the wrong tune you can easily lose 50-100 HP if the tune is way off. Seen it done when I used to drag race.

I wuz gonna stay outta this one, but gotta give :dblthumb:

to this post. Ya damn skippy!

Elliott · Aug 22, 2011

We need someone to volunteer some dyno time for some real world testing between the setups, propane to carb then to injection all on the same motor! Probably would be pretty interesting

doctordick · Aug 22, 2011

Elliott said:
We need someone to volunteer some dyno time for some real world testing between the setups, propane to carb then to injection all on the same motor! Probably would be pretty interesting

Ricky B knows all the superstars, maybe he can hook up something with Ian Johnson ;D ;D If you tune strictly for peak horsepower, a carb and EFI should be equal. However, EFI should produce more HP over a wider RPM range due to the ability to optimize fuel flow and
ignition timing over the entire range. That's my guess, anyway. Propane is a horse of a different color, because to optimize for max HP would require a different engine configuration such as compression, cam profile, intake configuration and so forth. I don't know if propane produces more or less energy per unit of volume. It's like comparing gasoline and alcohol. Alcohol produces less energy per unit of volume than gasoline, but because it doesn't detonate like gasoline, you can run higher compression and more ignition timing produciing more power. You just have to use a lot more of it.

TURNEROFFROAD · Aug 22, 2011

doctordick said:
Ricky B knows all the superstars, maybe he can hook up something with Ian Johnson ;D ;D If you tune strictly for peak horsepower, a carb and EFI should be equal. However, EFI should produce more HP over a wider RPM range due to the ability to optimize fuel flow and
ignition timing over the entire range. Propane is a horse of a different color, because to optimize for max HP would require a different engine configuration such as compression, cam profile, intake configuration and so forth. I don't know if propane produces more or less energy per unit of volume. It's like comparing gasoline and alcohol. Alcohol produces less energy per unit of volume than gasoline, but because it doesn't detonate like gasoline, you can run higher compression and more ignition timing produciing more power. You just have to use a lot more of it.

good post, I totally agree....

redneckengineered · Aug 22, 2011

MSimpson said:
I recently had my motor rebuilt with some head and intake work; it dynoed at 621 hp 600 torque with a 850 double pumper. I currently have a mass flow but am looking at fast or Big stuff 3. I read that Tims new rig is pulling 700 hp with mods. GM Performance claims 620 hp / 590 torque. So my question is will the fuel injection and the 180 degree headers
create 80 more horsepower, because I'm right there before these mods and that might be my answer, or were there others mods, and what did the dyno say torque ended up at.
Thanks any help would be appreciated.

That's 700 internet HP. Big difference :****:

doctordick · Aug 22, 2011

BLOWN AND INJECTED ON ALCOHOL, PUUURFECT!!!! :woot:

MSimpson · Aug 22, 2011

I have decided to go with the fast system, Shad at Macon motorsports who rebuilt the motor for me seems to prefer it becauase of their tech support.
He has access to a chassis dyno and we are probably going to bring a fast tech in to tune it. I really like the throttle response that Timmie and Jo Jo have
and hope to end up with it. Thanks to everyone for the information, I do have a better understanding of efi and what to expect from it.

--Will post results from chassis dyno

Elliott · Aug 22, 2011

Any way you could dyno it with the carb on it then swap to the fast?

doctordick · Aug 22, 2011

Okay, I did a little research and propane produces more energy than gasoline. Similar to alcohol, detonation is not as much a problem as it is running gas. To fully take advantage of propane, you'd want to run a different engine combination than for gasoline. That said, running the same engine combination, propane should produce marginally more power than gasoline.

Interestingly, natural gas produces more energy than propane. The U.S. has more energy in the form of natural gas than all of the known oil reserves in the middle east. Two things you need to know about natural gas. The whole issue of fracking is bogus. Fracking (fracturing) is simply pumping fluid into a formation to produce channels for the gas to escape into the bore hole. It is done using primarily water and guar gum (look on the ingredients list on your ice cream carton) from hundreds to thousands of feet below the fresh water table. Fracking is done routinely on virtually every oil well and has been for decades. Pennsylvania has added 16,000 jobs in the past couple of years since they started producing their natural gas reserves. Secondly, natural gas costs about 40 percent of what an equivalent amount of energy from gasoline costs. No refining is required, it is dried (moisture removed) and compressed , often right at the well head and goes directly into transportation lines. Like crude oil, natural gas can be refined into other commercial products. So why don't we produce more of it? Politics, no other reason.

xjpaddler · Aug 26, 2011

MSimpson said:
I have decided to go with the fast system, Shad at Macon motorsports who rebuilt the motor for me seems to prefer it becauase of their tech support.
He has access to a chassis dyno and we are probably going to bring a fast tech in to tune it. I really like the throttle response that Timmie and Jo Jo have
and hope to end up with it. Thanks to everyone for the information, I do have a better understanding of efi and what to expect from it.

--Will post results from chassis dyno

mark, are you gunna make it to superlift for labor day???

TURNEROFFROAD · Aug 26, 2011

xjpaddler said:
mark, are you gunna make it to superlift for labor day???

Yeah Heath, we are camped next door to each other.... Thanks again Mark, my RV would have NEVER fit on that other pad!!

COLEWORX · Aug 29, 2011

Mark
Before you go and start changing parts on on this machine you might ought to check with me to get permission. This could cause big problems when we make our trade. Remeber the deal, you get old yellow I get your buggy, one mtn dew and a can of copenhagen. Now if you change injection systems you will have to throw in another mtn dew. I let you rebuild the motor without saying anything about the original deal.

If you have a problem with this you can reach me B R 5 4 9 unnderstand!!!!!!!!!!

oldmanphillips · Aug 29, 2011

Mark,

The above statment was suppose to be from me!
When I checked it out to see if I halfway spelled the words right I realized that Bryan had been on the computter, so I posted on his page by mistake. Should have looked first to see who was logged in here at the shop before I pushed post but I screwed up,but you still get the point.

Call me 615-533-6001
Mark Phillips

MSimpson · Aug 29, 2011

yes SIR, dont know what I was thinking, I wont let it happen without permission.

Macman · Sep 7, 2011

Any #'s yet on the dyno?

MSimpson · Sep 7, 2011

not yet

xjpaddler · Sep 7, 2011

dont know about #s, but that sumbich is stout :****:

Got to ride with mark a little this past weekend, I can forsee it costing me a lot of money in the future drool

TURNEROFFROAD · Sep 7, 2011

xjpaddler said:
dont know about #s, but that sumbich is stout :****:

Got to ride with mark a little this past weekend, I can forsee it costing me a lot of money in the future drool

:****: