This thread is about the Ford Dana 60 SuperDuty front axles. I'm only interested in the outers, meaning from the C's, knuckles, BJs, UBs, brakes etc...
Quick intro for those who aren't very familiar with the axles :
There are 4 main versions of these axles with small differences from year to year.
- 99-04 F250/350, which had small "normal sized" dana60 outers with somewhat weak Unit Bearings and got a bad rep for a bit
- 99-04 F450/550, which have almost no aftermarket support
- 05+ F250/350 that have big UBs and C's and Knuckles that fit the 1550 and rockwell joint shafts.
- 05+ F450/550 that have massive C's and Knuckles and that will fit the RCV big bells, the 1550 u joints and the rockwell joints no problem.
After putting my hands on quite a few of these axles, I've always been curious about the possibility of running the RCV big bells in the F250/350 outers. I've heard plenty of times it could be done no problem, but so far, I didn't see any picture or anyone that has been able to run the big CVs in these outers. Lot's of talk, no proof.
My goal is to find one (or more) way(s) to run these bad ass CVs for a lower cost than going the full custom route (Reid Super KP / Crane Magnum / Ouverson outers).
Why use these 05+ F250/350 ?
Because :
- They're bigger than the 99-04 versions
- The UBs are massive and RCV makes a Big Bell that supposedly "fits"
- They are plentiful and cheap
- They have easy brake options, whereas the F450/550 outers brake situation hasn't been solved yet and they require pinion brakes (I don't want these).
- I also happen to have plenty of F250/350 axles on hand. So I didn't mind tearing into one.
Thanks to some great people, this weekend I was able to test the fitment of a big bell RCV in the 05+ F250/350 outers.
This is a copy of what I posted on Pirate this morning, with a little more details.
What I can confirm is that they fit without much mods needed. IE the lower BJ stem had to be cut/ground off some to fit the orange dome but that was it. The bell rotates and turns without any issues.
The problem is installing it.
1) The bell doesn't fit through the UB bore in the knuckle, it hits a lip that is machined in there.
2) With an axle shaft connected, there is no way to install/remove the knuckle after the shaft and bell are slid in the axle. All these pictures down there have been taken without an axle shaft installed for this reason.
I removed the upper BJ to simulate what would happen if a BJ eliminator kit was installed on this knuckle. Even though it helps, there is still about 1/2'' of stub shaft that doesn't fit through the knuckle. I was supposed to have the kit from Nick Barna installed but some shipping issues prevented this to happen.
After talking with Nick (great guy BTW), we came up with a list of mods to do to his upper BJ eliminator kit in order to work with the bell. We also talked about a lower BJ to KP style conversion in order to remove the whole knuckle in one shot and give access to the bell.
I really want to thank RCV for sending me a bell and dome free of charge for testing purposes. Love these guys, the customer service is second to none.
I also want to thank Nick Barna for spending quite a bit of time exchanging ideas and pictures with me. He's a wheeler himself and is definitely interested in improving his product and listening to good inputs. He just upgraded to a CNC lathe in order to bang some more of his BJ kits out and I'm definitely in the testing batch for his lower kit when it comes out.
I strongly believe there is a way to make a RCV big bell work in these axles, but with what's available on the market at the moment, it's a no-go. I'm glad I tested before ordering.
Here are some pics. LMK if I can help or you have any questions.
THINGS TO NOTE :
I've been extremely happy with the feedback I got from the community on pirate.
One of the ideas that was pointed out was to machine the lip in the knuckle out in order to slide the bell though. I think I have found someone willing to do the machine work so we can try it soon. Not my favorite method to get the bell in but I want to know if it works.
I'll keep you guys posted.
Quick intro for those who aren't very familiar with the axles :
There are 4 main versions of these axles with small differences from year to year.
- 99-04 F250/350, which had small "normal sized" dana60 outers with somewhat weak Unit Bearings and got a bad rep for a bit
- 99-04 F450/550, which have almost no aftermarket support
- 05+ F250/350 that have big UBs and C's and Knuckles that fit the 1550 and rockwell joint shafts.
- 05+ F450/550 that have massive C's and Knuckles and that will fit the RCV big bells, the 1550 u joints and the rockwell joints no problem.
After putting my hands on quite a few of these axles, I've always been curious about the possibility of running the RCV big bells in the F250/350 outers. I've heard plenty of times it could be done no problem, but so far, I didn't see any picture or anyone that has been able to run the big CVs in these outers. Lot's of talk, no proof.
My goal is to find one (or more) way(s) to run these bad ass CVs for a lower cost than going the full custom route (Reid Super KP / Crane Magnum / Ouverson outers).
Why use these 05+ F250/350 ?
Because :
- They're bigger than the 99-04 versions
- The UBs are massive and RCV makes a Big Bell that supposedly "fits"
- They are plentiful and cheap
- They have easy brake options, whereas the F450/550 outers brake situation hasn't been solved yet and they require pinion brakes (I don't want these).
- I also happen to have plenty of F250/350 axles on hand. So I didn't mind tearing into one.
Thanks to some great people, this weekend I was able to test the fitment of a big bell RCV in the 05+ F250/350 outers.
This is a copy of what I posted on Pirate this morning, with a little more details.
What I can confirm is that they fit without much mods needed. IE the lower BJ stem had to be cut/ground off some to fit the orange dome but that was it. The bell rotates and turns without any issues.
The problem is installing it.
1) The bell doesn't fit through the UB bore in the knuckle, it hits a lip that is machined in there.
2) With an axle shaft connected, there is no way to install/remove the knuckle after the shaft and bell are slid in the axle. All these pictures down there have been taken without an axle shaft installed for this reason.
I removed the upper BJ to simulate what would happen if a BJ eliminator kit was installed on this knuckle. Even though it helps, there is still about 1/2'' of stub shaft that doesn't fit through the knuckle. I was supposed to have the kit from Nick Barna installed but some shipping issues prevented this to happen.
After talking with Nick (great guy BTW), we came up with a list of mods to do to his upper BJ eliminator kit in order to work with the bell. We also talked about a lower BJ to KP style conversion in order to remove the whole knuckle in one shot and give access to the bell.
I really want to thank RCV for sending me a bell and dome free of charge for testing purposes. Love these guys, the customer service is second to none.
I also want to thank Nick Barna for spending quite a bit of time exchanging ideas and pictures with me. He's a wheeler himself and is definitely interested in improving his product and listening to good inputs. He just upgraded to a CNC lathe in order to bang some more of his BJ kits out and I'm definitely in the testing batch for his lower kit when it comes out.
I strongly believe there is a way to make a RCV big bell work in these axles, but with what's available on the market at the moment, it's a no-go. I'm glad I tested before ordering.
Here are some pics. LMK if I can help or you have any questions.
THINGS TO NOTE :
I've been extremely happy with the feedback I got from the community on pirate.
One of the ideas that was pointed out was to machine the lip in the knuckle out in order to slide the bell though. I think I have found someone willing to do the machine work so we can try it soon. Not my favorite method to get the bell in but I want to know if it works.
I'll keep you guys posted.