emergency trick for a bad fuel pump

[patooyee]

I don't know if anyone has done this before, but my fuel pump went bad last Sat. I barely was able to get onto the trailer before it died completely which made getting it off the trailer at the shop a ***** because I have to drive over a fender and I didn't even have enough pressure to let the engine idle, much less rev enough to power over the fender. So After a little fiddling I was able to rig my OBA up to the fuel cell and charge it which gave me 40psi fuel pressure, enough to get off the trailer and into the shop.

My fuel cell is 1/4 aluminum, not sure how thin I would feel safe going or if it would work with a plastic tank. But it something to consider in a bind if you have to get off the trail or a trailer.

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: emergency trick for a bad fuel pump

Hmm good idea.

Why don't we just run pressurized fuel systems and not deal with pumps?

Oh yeah, that would be like propane....

Lol

 

[BUG-E J]

carb cleaner and a piece of hose into the intake. I've drove a bunch into shops like that.

 

[patooyee]

Re: Re: emergency trick for a bad fuel pump

Hmm good idea.

Why don't we just run pressurized fuel systems and not deal with pumps?

Oh yeah, that would be like propane....

Lol

****, for that matter, why don't we just pressurize our fuel cells?

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: emergency trick for a bad fuel pump

****, for that matter, why don't we just pressurize our fuel cells?

That's what I meant... While also attempting to poke fun at your recent gas vs propane debate.

(which I am currently having also)

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: emergency trick for a bad fuel pump

****, for that matter, why don't we just pressurize our fuel cells?

In theory it should work. Supply whatever head pressure you need, regulated.

You wouldn't need a separate fuel pressure regulator or a return line, and it would increase the boiling temp of the gas.

I think you'd want the fuel in a compressible bladder tho, so the gas fumes don't mix with your supply air.

 

[patooyee]

Re: Re: Re: Re: emergency trick for a bad fuel pump

I think you'd want the fuel in a compressible bladder tho, so the gas fumes don't mix with your supply air.

And since there would only be one way in or out of the bladder you would never have to worry about pickup issues.

 

[patooyee]

Re: Re: Re: Re: emergency trick for a bad fuel pump

That's what I meant... While also attempting to poke fun at your recent gas vs propane debate.

(which I am currently having also)

Don't worry, the humor wasn't lost or unappreciated.

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: emergency trick for a bad fuel pump

Airplanes use flexible bladder fuel cells...

OR,

you could put the AIR in a bladder.

That would be the ticket.


ATL makes some stuff that I think would work...

These are "pillow presses" used in a box/form to press things into shape... Could also be used to pressurize a fuel cell?

http://atlinc.com/inflatables.html

They also make these "pillow bladders" for dispensing liquids. I assume it could be put in a box, with the outlet on through a bulkhead fitting then pressurize the box?

http://atlinc.com/pillow.html#C1

 

[grcthird]

Yall some smart mofos. Wouldn't have to worry about a vent tube leaking all over the place, safer for rollovers, pickups could be higher up the cell so lizards would just sink and stay on the bottom just have to find a way to mount the arm for the sending unit to the bladder.

 

[wannabe]

How would you manage the additional pressure created by the gasoline itself?

 

[TBItoy]

How would you manage the additional pressure created by the gasoline itself?

what additional pressure?

From the fuel getting hot and expanding?

Pressure regulated vent line.





Also, how about using CO2 to pressurize a non-bladder fuel cell. CO2 is cheap, and a normal soda machine/powertank bottle would be enough for a bunch of tanks of fuel.



of course venting the pressure off to re-fuel might be a problem.



The air bladder might be a better idea

 

[patooyee]

Re:

I called atl about bladders for this. I might as well have had three eyes. Basically they had never heard of it but said anything can happen with enough money.

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[patooyee]

Re:

What about if you had a pressure line break? It would spray fuel until it depressurized ...

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[TBItoy]

Re:

What about if you had a pressure line break? It would spray fuel until it depressurized ...

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Yep, just like a regular fuel system, but I reckon you'd have a lot more residual pressure.

Maybe an electric solenoid on the outlet of the fuel tank that would cut fuel when you hit the kill switch.

 

[RustyC]

Yep a powered to run solenoid at the cell, killing the power to it would be just like cutting off a pump.

Would pressurizing the cell to say 50 psi through the solenoid, filter,fuel rails against the regulator. Now you would have a pressure drop to maybe 40 psi down the return line to the cell. A check valve would be needed at the cell to prevent the return side from being pressurized to 50 psi also.
So on the engine side of the check valve you have 40psi and the cell side is 50psi, it would never open unless it was a pilot operated check valve.

Maybe do away with a return line and regulate the cell pressure to maintain the needed pressure in the fuel rails and not have a return back to cell.
Would deleting the return cause vapor lock or boiling the fuel in the rails due to the fuel just sitting there until sprayed through an injector?

Basically building a bomb if you think about it, you know kinda like propane.

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: emergency trick for a bad fuel pump

In theory it should work. Supply whatever head pressure you need, regulated.

You wouldn't need a separate fuel pressure regulator or a return line, and it would increase the boiling temp of the gas.

I think you'd want the fuel in a compressible bladder tho, so the gas fumes don't mix with your supply air.

Yep a powered to run solenoid at the cell, killing the power to it would be just like cutting off a pump.

Would pressurizing the cell to say 50 psi through the solenoid, filter,fuel rails against the regulator. Now you would have a pressure drop to maybe 40 psi down the return line to the cell. A check valve would be needed at the cell to prevent the return side from being pressurized to 50 psi also.
So on the engine side of the check valve you have 40psi and the cell side is 50psi, it would never open unless it was a pilot operated check valve.

Maybe do away with a return line and regulate the cell pressure to maintain the needed pressure in the fuel rails and not have a return back to cell.
Would deleting the return cause vapor lock or boiling the fuel in the rails due to the fuel just sitting there until sprayed through an injector?

Basically building a bomb if you think about it, you know kinda like propane.

yep, the applied air pressure would be regulated, no return line needed. Air pressure in the tank = Fuel pressure.... No external fuel regulators needed.

Unless you had an improperly shielded line somewhere where really bad heat soak occurred, I wouldn't see that vapor lock would be a problem...

 

[RustyC]

Yeah what you said.

So say we have a fuel cell and all the plumbing to the engine. How can we pressurize the cell?
Obviously it will be air, co2, nitrogen. or Nitrous Oxide
So on board air, engine or elec. compressor? both can fail electrically and mechanically.
Pressurized gas cylinders? heavy and bulky.
Wonder how long a powertank would last.
hmm?

 

[TBItoy]

Yeah what you said.

So say we have a fuel cell and all the plumbing to the engine. How can we pressurize the cell?
Obviously it will be air, co2, nitrogen. or Nitrous Oxide
So on board air, engine or elec. compressor? both can fail electrically and mechanically.
Pressurized gas cylinders? heavy and bulky.
Wonder how long a powertank would last.
hmm?

what additional pressure?

From the fuel getting hot and expanding?

Pressure regulated vent line? Probably wouldnt' be necessary as the engine uses fuel, and it's not dumping hot fuel back into the tank with a return line





Also, how about using CO2 to pressurize a non-bladder fuel cell. CO2 is cheap, and a normal soda machine/powertank bottle would be enough for a bunch of tanks of fuel.



of course venting the pressure off to re-fuel might be a problem.



The air bladder might be a better idea

A Powertank (soda machine bottle with a fancy paint job) would probably last for a bunch of tanks of fuel. I used to use one to air up and down back when I first started wheeling and always aired up to drive on the road. (trail rig that I drove everywhere)




I think OBA and using regular air would be the most "reliable". You could always use CO2 or N2 for a back up if your OBA failed

I think the bladder setup, probably with the bladder containing the air, would be the the "best" idea, because you would only have 1 bulkhead on the bladder itself, and venting the pressure off for re-fueling wouldn't be an issue.

If you put fuel in the bladder, then you would have to have a opening to add fuel, and a bulkhead for a fuel line, so the bladder would be more complicated.

In theory you could add an air bladder and use any fuel cell with a fill cap and bulkhead capable of holding ~55 psi (or whatever you need)





I really feel that someone, somewhere has probably thought of this at one time or another and possibly tried to execute it... But who knows?

I might work ok, might not work at all. The theory sound I think.



I think you would NEED a tank on your OBA to have enough "reserve pressure" to keep the air pressure in the fuel tank (and fuel pressure) from fluctuating much when you mash the gas and it starts using fuel at a higher rate (increasing flow out of the tank, causing a potential pressure drop)

 

[nwflyj]

Re:

Wow, what a great idea. Where did you come up with pressurizing the fuel cell?
Unsurpassed ingenuity.