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Tech & Fab
Full hydro steering, unequal length tie rods causing major handling problems?
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<blockquote data-quote="urbex" data-source="post: 762429" data-attributes="member: 15915"><p>Been working on a Samurai with a low budget full hydro steering set up. Chevy full width 10b axle, currently open differentials front and rear, Fox 2x12 coilovers, 2x8 double ended Surplus center ram, non load reaction steering valve, stock Vitara 2.0L pump, running to factory steering arms on the knuckles where the tie rod used to be. Set up this way for both budget and clearance reasons. Tried to avoid the expense of going high steer, and I have set up the Sammy to be low COG, so packaging the cylinder low worked out better.</p><p></p><p>I bored the factory TRE holes on my mill to be a nearly precision fit with the bolts holding the heim joints on to minimize slop in the event those bolts ever come loose. Due to the low height, I have the steering cylinder WAY offset to clear the pumpkin...which I _think_ is now causing the big problem of it feeling like it has extreme bump steer.</p><p></p><p>This thing is anything but stable at any speed above 25mph or so. Steers fine at crawling speeds, but once I get it up to any kind of speed on the road, it's all over the place, whether on pavement or on dirt. It reacts like the front end is set up with WAY too much toe out, and the tiniest bit of steering input makes the front end jump all over, as if it has wicked bump steer. It's next to impossible to keep it in a straight line. I built it with the intention of it being a trailer queen, and have zero desire to take it down the freeway, but doing 10mph down the access roads to the trails from the trailer parking area is gonna suck too.</p><p></p><p>Cylinder is positioned fore/aft to have everything in a straight line with steering full left/right. I currently have an 11" difference in tie rod length due to the cylinder offset. Center to center of the heims - 19" passenger side, 8" driver side. I _think_ this is causing major toe changes as the steering is cycled, causing my problem? I've been doing a ton of reading and searching, and have seen various posts from people across various forums where people are saying offset cylinders "works fine", but never any details about how much offset, if/when too much is too much, or if it's strictly on crawlers that never come out of 4LO.</p><p></p><p>I have spent hours playing with alignment numbers, and have gone from 0* through 10* caster, 1/4" toe out through 1/4" toe in..not one big jump, those are just the extremes..I have dialed in a bunch of different numbers in between trying to solve this. Currently settled on 7* caster, 1/16" toe in as the best compromise, but it's still not anything I'd want to run much past 15mph or so.</p><p></p><p>So now before I tear out my current cylinder mount, I'm hoping can at least say that I'm on the right track, or way off, on my thinking that my cylinder needs to be more centered up..maybe I'm going to be forced into high steer on this?</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]160180[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]160181[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]160184[/ATTACH]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="urbex, post: 762429, member: 15915"] Been working on a Samurai with a low budget full hydro steering set up. Chevy full width 10b axle, currently open differentials front and rear, Fox 2x12 coilovers, 2x8 double ended Surplus center ram, non load reaction steering valve, stock Vitara 2.0L pump, running to factory steering arms on the knuckles where the tie rod used to be. Set up this way for both budget and clearance reasons. Tried to avoid the expense of going high steer, and I have set up the Sammy to be low COG, so packaging the cylinder low worked out better. I bored the factory TRE holes on my mill to be a nearly precision fit with the bolts holding the heim joints on to minimize slop in the event those bolts ever come loose. Due to the low height, I have the steering cylinder WAY offset to clear the pumpkin...which I _think_ is now causing the big problem of it feeling like it has extreme bump steer. This thing is anything but stable at any speed above 25mph or so. Steers fine at crawling speeds, but once I get it up to any kind of speed on the road, it's all over the place, whether on pavement or on dirt. It reacts like the front end is set up with WAY too much toe out, and the tiniest bit of steering input makes the front end jump all over, as if it has wicked bump steer. It's next to impossible to keep it in a straight line. I built it with the intention of it being a trailer queen, and have zero desire to take it down the freeway, but doing 10mph down the access roads to the trails from the trailer parking area is gonna suck too. Cylinder is positioned fore/aft to have everything in a straight line with steering full left/right. I currently have an 11" difference in tie rod length due to the cylinder offset. Center to center of the heims - 19" passenger side, 8" driver side. I _think_ this is causing major toe changes as the steering is cycled, causing my problem? I've been doing a ton of reading and searching, and have seen various posts from people across various forums where people are saying offset cylinders "works fine", but never any details about how much offset, if/when too much is too much, or if it's strictly on crawlers that never come out of 4LO. I have spent hours playing with alignment numbers, and have gone from 0* through 10* caster, 1/4" toe out through 1/4" toe in..not one big jump, those are just the extremes..I have dialed in a bunch of different numbers in between trying to solve this. Currently settled on 7* caster, 1/16" toe in as the best compromise, but it's still not anything I'd want to run much past 15mph or so. So now before I tear out my current cylinder mount, I'm hoping can at least say that I'm on the right track, or way off, on my thinking that my cylinder needs to be more centered up..maybe I'm going to be forced into high steer on this? [ATTACH type="full" alt="IMG_20211029_155614_copy_1280x960.jpg"]160180[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full" alt="IMG_20220129_132956.jpg"]160181[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full"]160184[/ATTACH] [/QUOTE]
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Full hydro steering, unequal length tie rods causing major handling problems?
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