-
Help Support Hardline Crawlers :
Public Meeting
- Thread starter crash2
- Start date
- Status
Not fuming by any means :haha: The meetings sound like they were exactly the same (pacifiers to try and calm the masses down). Even though the tactics are the same there is a distinct difference. Elbe is and was a legal and official ORV park but the issue was blown wayyyyy out of proportion to inflame the masses. Reiter is not a legal or official orv park and the issue (closer) is real. The big difference is that Reiter is NOT a legal or official orv park and I feel that the DNR is doing what it can to limit its liabilities while trying its best to provide a legal area.
japerry
Well-Known Member
time to :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot:
http://www.off-road.com/offroad/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=293229
:corn: :corn: :corn:
Btw, in the end, the Skagit Motorcycle group won the battle, and a month later DNR retracted the closure. No heads rolled, but supposedly some DNR staff ended up getting transfered around because of the embarrassment.
I'm not implying the same thing is happening here -- but it might be worth it to do some independent checking on the 'science'.... it'd be interesting if the science pained a much different picture of Reiter than what we've been led to believe. :corn:
http://www.off-road.com/offroad/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=293229
:corn: :corn: :corn:
Btw, in the end, the Skagit Motorcycle group won the battle, and a month later DNR retracted the closure. No heads rolled, but supposedly some DNR staff ended up getting transfered around because of the embarrassment.
I'm not implying the same thing is happening here -- but it might be worth it to do some independent checking on the 'science'.... it'd be interesting if the science pained a much different picture of Reiter than what we've been led to believe. :corn:
Last edited:
Avanteone
Well-Known Member
I read that whole article, there's some eerie similarities between what happened there and what's going on now with Reiter.
Indeed.
From the DNR website:
The 10,000-acre Reiter Foothills State Forest is a continuous block of forest land located in Snohomish County 30 miles east of Everett between Gold Bar and Index. The state forest is sandwiched between Highway 2 and the Mount Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest.
So ORVs did not use all the 10,000 acres.
Binder
Well-Known Member
Why do you say that? And there's no "continuous block of forest land".
Binder
Well-Known Member
There are a lot of simillarities in that article but one major difference. Reiter isn't a ORV area.....I wish the article would have named names of DNR people involved so we would know who to steer clear of now.
That's beyond eerie.
japerry
Well-Known Member
Christ Thompson is the only one I know that was directly involved with that.
Binder
Well-Known Member
Who is Christ Thompson and is he involved with the Reiter dealings now?
http://www.dnr.wa.gov/Search/Results.aspx?k=Christ Thompson
http://www.dnr.wa.gov/Publications/lm_blmt_nr03-059.pdf
Is it Christ Thomsen?
I don't think he has anything to do with Reiter.
Last edited:
japerry
Well-Known Member
You're right, he has nothing to do with Reiter. After the Walker Valley controversy, he was 'reassigned'.
I like most of the people at the DNR right now. I think most have level heads, and the ones who 'represent' DNR (aka Mark Mauren) do a good job of laying out the facts that are presented to them.
I like most of the people at the DNR right now. I think most have level heads, and the ones who 'represent' DNR (aka Mark Mauren) do a good job of laying out the facts that are presented to them.
Last edited:
some bits i took from the meeting...
CAMPING: it was stated that they intend to build 25-50 " primitive camp sites" ie: small fire pit with a cooking grate, posably a picknic table and a few out houses
i talked with i belive Shawn about this. they had a poster that stated that @ other parks, it cost 1.4-2.8MILLION to build 25-50 sites. i comented that those costs seemed rather high for " primitive" sites. he started to try to give a long drawn out convaluted explination of why it costs so much. building roads to access them ( it was stated that they would be built along side existing roads), leaseing the sites from the trust, enviromental studdies, detailed site prep , construction, planning etc... i inturupted asking how much was realy needed for a " primitive site other than brush clearing, and posably minor dirt work to make level ( most sites elsewhere arnt) the wooman working with him jumped in bantering about how these wernt wild guesses, its actual costs of prior projects, and they do this all the time and are able to accuretly asses the situation. to me it sounds like not only governmetal bloat and missapropreation of funds, but they must also be buying some of those $10k toilet seats the millitary buys. after that coment she became irate and started to ramble and i couldnt realy folow any train of thought( exelent public speaker there.. way to back up the guy you were bailing out)
ROADS: they only projected $250k-900k for roads ( realy? that sounds about right, but obviously not as bloated as the camp sites)
TRAIL MAINTANACE : $7k per mile of trail per year ( how many miles can you cram in 1k acres?)
bidding for an independent trail consultant: must meet guidelines and qualification criteria, but no one new what the guidelines or criteria was. they want to outscource because they know there own department isnt trusted. sure inspires confidance. it was stated at one point that the bidding process had started, then retracted later stateing they needed to develope the criteria
LAND USE: he had stated that when they did the studdy to determine areas in need, they didnt care who's land it was on, wethere it was authorised etc, and that there studdie stated that the "reiter foothills block" had a total useage of 10k acres. he was unable to disclose the boundrys of said block. now as said earlyer, theres various land holders in question, and that many of them had no interest in participating in an orv area. this is prob why alot of the areas are not shown on the map, and why the areas are blobs scattered around the map.
overall my feel from the meeting?
theres alot more greenies out there with friends in high places trying to shut things down than there are users.
the users are not a unified group and fight amongst them selves.
these 2 things leave a sinking feeling. WE NEED TO UNITE AND GET INVOLVED!
im not an " active wheeler" , hell, compared to most people on here im not even an active web wheeler... BUT this has me hot under the coller, its getting me involved. Given the opertunity, i will be at more of the cleanups, trail repair partys, etc. its not much to brag about, but i have been to more reater cleanups than times ive actualy gotten out and wheeled. ive put more work into takeing care of reiter than i have my own rig.. lol and i plan to make alot more of an effort in the future, on both parts.
CAMPING: it was stated that they intend to build 25-50 " primitive camp sites" ie: small fire pit with a cooking grate, posably a picknic table and a few out houses
i talked with i belive Shawn about this. they had a poster that stated that @ other parks, it cost 1.4-2.8MILLION to build 25-50 sites. i comented that those costs seemed rather high for " primitive" sites. he started to try to give a long drawn out convaluted explination of why it costs so much. building roads to access them ( it was stated that they would be built along side existing roads), leaseing the sites from the trust, enviromental studdies, detailed site prep , construction, planning etc... i inturupted asking how much was realy needed for a " primitive site other than brush clearing, and posably minor dirt work to make level ( most sites elsewhere arnt) the wooman working with him jumped in bantering about how these wernt wild guesses, its actual costs of prior projects, and they do this all the time and are able to accuretly asses the situation. to me it sounds like not only governmetal bloat and missapropreation of funds, but they must also be buying some of those $10k toilet seats the millitary buys. after that coment she became irate and started to ramble and i couldnt realy folow any train of thought( exelent public speaker there.. way to back up the guy you were bailing out)
ROADS: they only projected $250k-900k for roads ( realy? that sounds about right, but obviously not as bloated as the camp sites)
TRAIL MAINTANACE : $7k per mile of trail per year ( how many miles can you cram in 1k acres?)
bidding for an independent trail consultant: must meet guidelines and qualification criteria, but no one new what the guidelines or criteria was. they want to outscource because they know there own department isnt trusted. sure inspires confidance. it was stated at one point that the bidding process had started, then retracted later stateing they needed to develope the criteria
LAND USE: he had stated that when they did the studdy to determine areas in need, they didnt care who's land it was on, wethere it was authorised etc, and that there studdie stated that the "reiter foothills block" had a total useage of 10k acres. he was unable to disclose the boundrys of said block. now as said earlyer, theres various land holders in question, and that many of them had no interest in participating in an orv area. this is prob why alot of the areas are not shown on the map, and why the areas are blobs scattered around the map.
overall my feel from the meeting?
theres alot more greenies out there with friends in high places trying to shut things down than there are users.
the users are not a unified group and fight amongst them selves.
these 2 things leave a sinking feeling. WE NEED TO UNITE AND GET INVOLVED!
im not an " active wheeler" , hell, compared to most people on here im not even an active web wheeler... BUT this has me hot under the coller, its getting me involved. Given the opertunity, i will be at more of the cleanups, trail repair partys, etc. its not much to brag about, but i have been to more reater cleanups than times ive actualy gotten out and wheeled. ive put more work into takeing care of reiter than i have my own rig.. lol and i plan to make alot more of an effort in the future, on both parts.
DNR has been working on a plan for an ORV park in the Reiter pit area. They have came up with a piece of land that is best suitable for the basic ORV area. Now they have closed it down for the winter. Now this is what they are expecting everyone to do and make their job easier. Everyone is going to send them nasty colorful E mails full of swear words and rude comments showing how grown up we really are. Then they are going to collect them and show that we don
mark
Well-Known Member
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
Last edited:
That's not happening.
I started to realize 6-7 years ago Reiter was reaching a point with the users where it had to become managed or it was going to be completely lost.
As much as some of the 4WD users are bitching, the dirt bike community has gotta be PISSED. They are running out of places they can hold their large events. In DNR land, you want to run an event, the hosting org or club must have the volunteer hours to back it. 1 hour per participant.
When it comes to land stewardship, if Tahuya is any indicator, the 4WD community puts in more time than many of the other user groups combined. Kinda makes it hard to meet that hour per participant requirement for the others.
- Status
