Rocks vs Tons or 14 bolts

[muddertrucker]

I'm sure this is a topic that has been beat to death before but I'm building a bouncer as I get cash saved up and to the point of needing to build my axles or buy some.

I have a D70 rear and D60 front already but the cost of building them is pretty high.

I have found a set of totally rebuilt rocks with everything done to them rear steer, tower mounts, Detroit's, new u-joints, PSC steering rams, Mo hawked the whole nine yards. I can buy them way cheaper than I can build my axles.

But the thought has crossed my mind to build me some 14 bolts front and rear also. But buy far these rocks I have found are hands down the best price and are 100% ready to go!

Just haven't ever ran any rocks and wondering about the weight of them vs the TONS or 14 bolts.

I also have a 4 speed atlas and TH400 and have a low miles LQ4 6.0 motor I'm going to run tell I can save up the cash to buy a blower for it and have it dyno tuned. Tires will be more than likely 43 sx's.

ANY help from any fellow Rockwell guys about pros vs cons of the rocks would be great. One of my concerns are Ride heights with the Rocks.

 

[1tfrot]

plenty of rigs out there that sit fairly low with rocks.

can't speak from experience with rocks since I have the 60/14 combo, but my main concern would be wheelspeed (if that's a concern at all). depends on what type of wheelin you do and wheelspeed is necessary sometimes as you know.

I will say this, a decently built lq4 sounds really nice around 6,000 rpms :****:

 

[muddertrucker]

plenty of rigs out there that sit fairly low with rocks.

can't speak from experience with rocks since I have the 60/14 combo, but my main concern would be wheelspeed (if that's a concern at all). depends on what type of wheelin you do and wheelspeed is necessary sometimes as you know.

I will say this, a decently built lq4 sounds really nice around 6,000 rpms :****:

Well I'm building a bouncer and wheel speed will the key. my atlas 4 speed 1.1, 2.72, 4.3, 11.72 ratios. I'm wondering how that is going to work with the rocks geared at 6.72. I don't want to have to buy a new T case to run the Rocks the rocks are a great deal from what I have found but defeats the purpose of getting a good deal if I have to buy a new T case.

I've always have crawlers this is my first high speed build so looking for some info and help on gearing a ratios also. Thanks

 

[kushKrawlin]

I'm in the same boat with the 60/14.. As you were saying by the time you get through building them, you Will have a **** load of money in them.. Don't know much about Rockwells other than they are beast.. I can tell you with the Rockwells geared at 6.72 that I highly doubt that you would ever use the 11.72 ratio, pretty sure you would not be able to stop the vehicle.. Ha. My dream axle set up is 2 14 bolts, which would be badass, and with your Atlas you could run some 4.56 gears like I have and you would have plenty of options on gearing. The rocks would make havin the 4 speed almost not worth it I believe. If you have the money and the know-how I say two 14 bolts!! Not to mention if you ever Wanna sell it that has to be a huge plus. But this is just my opinion, keep in mind, I'm really not the sharpest tool in the shed. Just your average ole tool!

 

[patooyee]

Everyone knows I'm a big rockwell fan but given that you aren't changing t-cases the low gearing of the rockwell would probably completely negate the 4.3 and 11.72 ratios / make them unusable. Go tons.

Having said that, you could probably buy 2 of just about whatever t-case you ever wanted for what you have to put into tons to make them hold up to serious abuse. It seems like there is no end to the "upgrades." By the time you're done the only thing left over from stock is the center of the housing.

 

[TURNEROFFROAD]

In for the reading... I love Rocks... Put em on a diet!

 

[halcat]

I am not a bouncer, but I have built rocks with a 489 big chevy, 400 turbo and 203-205. Maybe I should have said build 489 big chevy. Wheel speed has never been a problem. I am not telling you to build a hill killer with rocks( but it can be done) but you take all the advantages, weight down low, drive shafts up, crawl gearing, cheep lockers, strong for rear steer and faire cheep to build. And as you said, this topic has been beat to death, if you build a comparable 14 bolt, there is not much difference in weight. And as turneroffroad said, you might could make a Rockwell weigh less. How many rocks have you seen break a housing.
BTW when I say wheel speed, I don't mean 100 MPH either. I think about 60 is all mine will do. But tires going 60 is pretty fast on a trail, I think.

 

[alscott]

had a buddy run rocks with a 4.3 atlas an it had plenty of wheel speed but it was like it broke loose to fast, he went to a 3.0 atlas an it does great but now its almost not low enough for crawling. I think stall has a lot to do with it to though... maybe if he had a different stall the 4.3 woulda been spot on

 

[patooyee]

400hp LS2, 2500 stall, TH400, 3.0 Low Max, rockwells.

My 1st gear low range is almost too low to do anything with. I can hold 3rd gear low range on most hills. 1st gear high range is only a **** hair higher than 3rd low and I can't hold 1st high on many hills.

 

[paradisepwoffrd]

Re:

Ouverson makes a 4.90 gear set that would fix the gear issue but they aren't cheap. If the rocks were cheap enough and you had the skill you could use them to build 14b axles

 

[Rockwells607]

Rocks , 205, th400 with 3500 stall, crawls in first and bangs In 2nd on revimter or 3rd

 

[yankster]

400hp LS2, 2500 stall, TH400, 3.0 Low Max, rockwells.

My 1st gear low range is almost too low to do anything with. I can hold 3rd gear low range on most hills. 1st gear high range is only a **** hair higher than 3rd low and I can't hold 1st high on many hills.

Nearly identical to my setup. Perfect I think.

 

[patooyee]

Nearly identical to my setup. Perfect I think.

Nearly. My 1st low is really too low but my 3rd high is just right so I would screw up the high by fooling with the low. I forgot to mention that I have 44" rubber.

I'm actually going to screw it all up eventually anyway as I am working on a set of 5.38 tons to replace the rocks. If the gain in efficiency isn't enough to make up for the loss of gearing I'm going to have to cam my motor.

 

[muddertrucker]

Re:

Ouverson makes a 4.90 gear set that would fix the gear issue but they aren't cheap. If the rocks were cheap enough and you had the skill you could use them to build 14b axles

I can pick the rocks up for his asking price of 3k and I am not real knowledgeable about the rocks but the price is cheap IOP I can't build my TONS for that. I am plenty capable of building a 14 bolt front axle we have a rear end jig now with a lil changes I can set up to build a front axle. My deal is just the cost factor.

I picked up the atlas for a song and a dance so I could possible sale it and get me a different one if needed.

My findings are the rocks are the best out the gate for strength vs cost!

 

[1tfrot]

Nearly. My 1st low is really too low but my 3rd high is just right so I would screw up the high by fooling with the low. I forgot to mention that I have 44" rubber.

I'm actually going to screw it all up eventually anyway as I am working on a set of 5.38 tons to replace the rocks. If the gain in efficiency isn't enough to make up for the loss of gearing I'm going to have to cam my motor.

if it helps, my setup is just that, 5.38 tons with 42s. th350/atlas 3.8
only thing I wish I could change would be an OD trans so 3rd low would go a little faster (it still moves out pretty good though). that's behind a 460hp-ish lq4

 

[muddertrucker]

I'm planning on cam and head change on my 6.0 and a blower hoping to get 650 HP. I have never messed with the LS motors so I don't know if that's crazy thinking or not. I have a aluminum headed 421 SBC out of one of the old Dirt racing cars but its on carb and its ALKY and has a 700 lift cam. so planning to sale It to pay for the LS build, VS trying to get a FI system to work on the 421.

 

[yankster]

I'm planning on cam and head change on my 6.0 and a blower hoping to get 650 HP. I have never messed with the LS motors so I don't know if that's crazy thinking or not. I have a aluminum headed 421 SBC out of one of the old Dirt racing cars but its on carb and its ALKY and has a 700 lift cam. so planning to sale It to pay for the LS build, VS trying to get a FI system to work on the 421.

My LS3 is 525 hp naturally aspirated on pump gas so a blower will easily make 650 if setup correctly.

 

[yankster]

Nearly. My 1st low is really too low but my 3rd high is just right so I would screw up the high by fooling with the low. I forgot to mention that I have 44" rubber.

I'm actually going to screw it all up eventually anyway as I am working on a set of 5.38 tons to replace the rocks. If the gain in efficiency isn't enough to make up for the loss of gearing I'm going to have to cam my motor.

I like the low 1st gear since I crawl most of the time. Generally take off in second and bounce in third. High range for running between trails.

 

[ratedX]

My Profab is geared 2 to 1 and I dnt shift to 3rd to often I know at 6300 rpm I'm runnin 73 mph with rocks

 

[Im84]

I don't think I will own another rig on tons for what I like to do. My last rig was on rocks and so is the one I'm working on now. As far as keeping them low it can be done to a certain point as long as you build around them. If your all out racing to win every time I would say build some bullet proof$ tons. That's not me so I think if I ever built another it would be on rocks. The after market parts for rocks has exploded in the past five years you can have a strong axle to start and build it up slowly as funds permit.

I'm in the market for some new t case gears for my profab. I have limited myself with the powerglide, wish I had gone th400 now. Trying to figure out the best gear set for my profab now and what wheel speed I can pull and be happy with. I won't be doing much crawling just hoping to set it up for some long looser climbs. Not sure on what gears some of you big boys are running, some of these bounty hills seem to be taking 90mph plus