Busy Wild Restriction Update

[Gibby1]

I just spoke with Nancy, she's out of town on vacation. She does not have time to look for a larger location before the meeting so it will be held at the standard location.

FYI, this location holds a maximum of 20 people, maybe 30 if everyone stands.

Per Nancy, "If a couple of hundred people show up it'll just be a waste of time for everyone as nothing will get done."

You do what you want, I'm only passing along information.

If a couple hundred people show up, a couple hundred people will be standing outside in the cold because the room's not big enough. If we rent a hall large enough to have a few hundred people show up it'll come directly out of the ORV budget earned by the volunteer hours, which means money out of the trail budget.

I asked her about the options for expanding the trail mileage so that we can build a NEW trail for the SWB vehicles and limit that trail instead of the busywild. Per the conservation plan that allows them to log there is no room for expansion. She used the term "supposedly" which leaves a little room for "maybe". She followed this up by telling me that the more we ask for, the more attention that we're going to draw to the area and some of that may be unwanted attention.

To pursue a line of asking for more trail mileage has potential, but it could also open a can of worms. The more attention the area gets the more those that are against us are going to get involved as well.

There could be options such as what's happening with Evan's Creek, in decommissioning one trail to create a new one of the same length thus there'd be no increase in total trail mileage.

 

[pokey]

I just spoke with Nancy, she's out of town on vacation. She does not have time to look for a larger location before the meeting so it will be held at the standard location.

FYI, this location holds a maximum of 20 people, maybe 30 if everyone stands.

Per Nancy, "If a couple of hundred people show up it'll just be a waste of time for everyone as nothing will get done."

You do what you want, I'm only passing along information.

If a couple hundred people show up, a couple hundred people will be standing outside in the cold because the room's not big enough. If we rent a hall large enough to have a few hundred people show up it'll come directly out of the ORV budget earned by the volunteer hours, which means money out of the trail budget.

I asked her about the options for expanding the trail mileage so that we can build a NEW trail for the SWB vehicles and limit that trail instead of the busywild. Per the conservation plan that allows them to log there is no room for expansion. She used the term "supposedly" which leaves a little room for "maybe". She followed this up by telling me that the more we ask for, the more attention that we're going to draw to the area and some of that may be unwanted attention.

To pursue a line of asking for more trail mileage has potential, but it could also open a can of worms. The more attention the area gets the more those that are against us are going to get involved as well.

There could be options such as what's happening with Evan's Creek, in decommissioning one trail to create a new one of the same length thus there'd be no increase in total trail mileage.

I was thinking about this as I read the flyer. again these are at a recommendation stage and the sky isn't falling. Seems to me a simple letter writing campaign would have been a more effective way to be sure your voice was heard. The whole point of the "focus" group meetings is to hear from the users represrnitives. This meeting was already broken down from all the user groups at Elbe to each group having its own meeting because things weren't getting done. Now it seems to the DNR that we cant even get along with ourselves:eeeknot that we wernt getting along with other users)

So what happens if "one side" gets there first and fills the room? Will this sway the outcome of this meeting? Personaly I think the DNR isnt going to make any decission based on this meeting but hey what do I know

 

[Gibby1]

I was thinking about this as I read the flyer. again these are at a recommendation stage and the sky isn't falling. Seems to me a simple letter writing campaign would have been a more effective way to be sure your voice was heard. The whole point of the "focus" group meetings is to hear from the users represrnitives. This meeting was already broken down from all the user groups at Elbe to each group having its own meeting because things weren't getting done. Now it seems to the DNR that we cant even get along with ourselves:eeeknot that we wernt getting along with other users)

So what happens if "one side" gets there first and fills the room? Will this sway the outcome of this meeting? Personaly I think the DNR isnt going to make any decission based on this meeting but hey what do I know

It's a little past the recommendation stage, but not at the set in stone stage. Currently the 82" wide and 109" long restriction will stand unless reason can be shown for them NOT to stand. But you are correct, the sky isn't falling.

If we end up in a situation where the first 20 or so people there get in and there are hundreds of people outside nothing will happen. Nancy doesn't think that that many people will really show up. We've seen this time and time again, everyone talks the talk and then no one shows up when it counts. She expects the same thing to happen.

If we have a couple hundred show up, I doubt I'll get in because I'm not going to camp out to get a seat... Oh by the way, there's parking for about 20 vehicles... and you can't block the access since it's a firestation.

 

[mud4funtoy]

I talked to Nancy boss Randy and he said that there might be another location Possibility. Also If they can't find one and are willing I will pay for a location if need be.

 

[mud4funtoy]

It's a little past the recommendation stage, but not at the set in stone stage. Currently the 82" wide and 109" long restriction will stand unless reason can be shown for them NOT to stand. But you are correct, the sky isn't falling.

If we end up in a situation where the first 20 or so people there get in and there are hundreds of people outside nothing will happen. Nancy doesn't think that that many people will really show up. We've seen this time and time again, everyone talks the talk and then no one shows up when it counts. She expects the same thing to happen.

If we have a couple hundred show up, I doubt I'll get in because I'm not going to camp out to get a seat... Oh by the way, there's parking for about 20 vehicles... and you can't block the access since it's a firestation.

I think that this time may be differant. I hope that we can get a lot of good user input and use this opportunity not only to try to beat the length restriction but also motivate more people to get involved up there. I plan on Sponsoring 2 work parties up there 1 in May and 1 in August.

 

[mud4funtoy]

Nancy's boss Randy Say"s differentially. He said that No decisions have been made. and that they have been asking for Recommendations from its users for the last year about what to do about the busy wild and they have only received a few recommendations. Now that everyone knows about it maybe we can all come up with some solutions and get everyone working together to make a difference.

 

[pokey]

I talked to Nancy boss Randy and he said that there might be another location Possibility. Also If they can't find one and are willing I will pay for a location if need be.

Steve, dont get me wrong I fully understand your issue with the length issue. I do tend to think you went about this all wrong though. If the meeting place is changed how do you plan on notifying all the people that picked up the flyers?

 

[mud4funtoy]

I don't think it is a question of getting along with our selves but more a matter of making decisions for other people without getting there input. The Pnw only represents a small community of Four wheelers we do not represent all the other people and I never read anything about this in the Tripower either and have talked to many other PNW members that also feel that they were excluded from the decision process on this matter. if we had been clued in about this before the decision was made I am sure that the outcome may have been differant.

 

[mud4funtoy]

Read the bottom of the flyer.

 

[mud4funtoy]

What are you doing on the pc this early in the morning

 

[mud4funtoy]

Jim I heard that John VanVynck wants to be the PNW rep for Elbe. That would be great. I would fully back him, He has a lot of experience when it comes to land matters and also dealing with people. It would be good to get everyone working together again. John is a good honest no bull **** kind of guy. I think the old timers and the young folks as well could get behind a guy like him.

 

[Gibby1]

I don't think it is a question of getting along with our selves but more a matter of making decisions for other people without getting there input. The Pnw only represents a small community of Four wheelers we do not represent all the other people and I never read anything about this in the Tripower either and have talked to many other PNW members that also feel that they were excluded from the decision process on this matter. if we had been clued in about this before the decision was made I am sure that the outcome may have been differant.

Steve, you must be getting old.
How many times did I post up that no one at the last meeting knew anything about the decision to place restrictions on the busywild until we got there. Prior to that there had NEVER been a request for input from those at the ground level. So whomever your talking to is full of crap and since you've read all these threads you should know better.

To my knowledge the ONLY person that busywild restrictions was discussed with was Arlene Brooks and Arlene said nothing to me. I only found that out as I received a copy of an email Arlene sent to Nancy about this issue. Apparently those two have talked about this in the past. I don't recall Arlene putting any requests for input out either.

Per Nancy at the last focus group meeting the decision WAS made but won't be implemented until they're able to make the information known and take appropriate action, which is not likely to happen until the spring.

How the F*&K would it be in the Tripower if no one knew about it ahead of time!!!!!????????????????????????????????

I do reports EVERY month at the region meeting and if this was being discussed it WOULD have been presented.

I've also sent multiple emails and phone calls to the powers that be that are supposed to put our work party information in the tripower and even get your name out of there as the Elbe rep. No response at all so I couldn't even get a work party promoted in the Tripower.

So you HAVE your facts wrong and you need to stop spewing mis-information.

 

[Gibby1]

Jim I heard that John VanVynck wants to be the PNW rep for Elbe. That would be great. I would fully back him, He has a lot of experience when it comes to land matters and also dealing with people. It would be good to get everyone working together again. John is a good honest no bull **** kind of guy. I think the old timers and the young folks as well could get behind a guy like him.

That's funny, last we heard John said that due to health and time issues he was hoping someone would take over the Land Manager position for Region 2 this year which is why Jim stepped up to take his place.

I like John, but he hasn't been able to make most of the recent region meetings, any of the work parties at Elbe or focus group meetings for the past year or so. I think that again, you may not have your facts straight.

 

[Not Jobless]

So you HAVE your facts wrong and you need to stop spewing mis-information.

Well put :beer:

 

[SnoFalls]

So, a meeting was held and some new thing comes up (width/length restrictions on busy) ...

So it was "ok, here's some dimensions, let's use these" ???
And then later "well perhaps that's too short, let's use these" ???

Hows about "let us to get back to you after we have gathered some input" ...

 

[CHOP SHOP]

So, a meeting was held and some new thing comes up (width/length restrictions on busy) ...

So it was "ok, here's some dimensions, let's use these" ???
And then later "well perhaps that's too short, let's use these" ???

Hows about "let us to get back to you after we have gathered some input" ...

somebody had to say it in BLACK AND WHITE. thanks.:awesomework:

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Steve, dont get me wrong I fully understand your issue with the length issue. I do tend to think you went about this all wrong though. If the meeting place is changed how do you plan on notifying all the people that picked up the flyers?

has nobody noticed the grange hall about 30 feet from the fire station??? it has tons of parking too.

 

[Gibby1]

So, a meeting was held and some new thing comes up (width/length restrictions on busy) ...

So it was "ok, here's some dimensions, let's use these" ???
And then later "well perhaps that's too short, let's use these" ???

Hows about "let us to get back to you after we have gathered some input" ...

How about, that option wasn't on the table.

 

[SnoFalls]

How about, that option wasn't on the table.

yea, if so ... REALLY sux to have that shoved down YOUR throat.

But, I've been following all this and hadn't heard that it was a "shove this down your throat, and decide it now".

IMO, it's not *if* or *should* busy have some restrictions on it ... it's that it happened "all of a sudden".

That alone has me personally more pissed than anything else.
Is it Dale's fault this happened?
Probably not, he got blindsided
Is it PNW4WDA's fault this happened?
Probably not, again no notice
Is it DNR's fault?
Probably, and now that *they* have heard the active response, perhaps they'll reconsider the "that option wasn't on the table" attitude.

I get the impression (from gibby and others) that DNR is receptive to "working with us" as best they can within their necessary needs.

Then again, imposing restrictions, without *any* input or warning isn't "working with us".

 

[SnoFalls]

to make what I understand "BLACK AND WHITE"

DNR says there *WILL* be restrictions put onto busywild!!!
I don't think *we* can change that ...

What *SHOULD* those restrictions be?
I do think we can provide input on that ...

Are they "size" restrictions? If so,
width being 81" or 82" or ???
length being 107" or 109" or ???

Does "size" fix the problem? (IMO nope! ... my 22 deringer will make ya just as dead as my shotgun, it aint the size of the gun).

It's obvious from what Dale has been saying here is that the DNR will negotiate. They need OPTIONS ... they seem to think "size" is the only option ... better have others before that meeting.