Deleted lines.

[Ty.]

I followed a friend around Evans Creek last night. He was in a stock Blazer that will be going to the scrap yard Monday. It was a "Demo wheeling" outing. Sadly, the trails we hit could not kill this stock Blazer. I had to aid in its demise along with some friends at the end of the night in the rock pit.

All of the fun lines had been deleted.

Why is it always the path of least resistance that is left open?

Who is to say the harder lines where not the original trail?


------------------------------------------

"I post this thread in honor of the late CHOP SHOP." -for his amusement-

flame on.

 

[Digger 5]

I disagree with the whole premise of 'demo wheelin'. On private property, go for it. Public lands? Not a good decision.

 

[Corey Y]

Sounds like private property would be a better place for you guys to do this stuff.

Get involved with the bi monthly USFS meetings and volunteer at work parties and you will see why things are the way they are.

 

[pokey]

Really now "demo wheeling" WTF Why do you think trails are being scrutnized and even closed

BTW the FS is very busy right now at Evans creek trying to bring the trails back to the original trails. Right or wrong agree or disagree thats what's happening.

 

[Ty.]

I was expecting some flaming for this post.

I have been told I should even delete this thread.


As soon as I posted the thread my dad showed up with his truck, and I have been working on it, so I have not been able to make further comments until now.

1. I knew the mention of "demo wheeling" would raise some peoples blood pressure, I threw it in there for the sake of honesty, and to see what kind of hits I would take for such behavior. ( I am not making a habit of demo wheeling, and am not producing a new Jack ass movie.)

This was a spur of the moment thing that some friends invited me out on. We did not hurt any trails, or trees, or cut any new lines, or move, or run over any logs to get to blocked lines.
The "demo" part of said wheeling was only on the blazer. No one got hurt, just the Blazer. Basically It died of fatigue in the rock pit, and possibly some injuries incurred by my rig running over the hood, and tearing off some of its appendeges. All parts, and pieces where picked up, and removed.

I agree this was all in poor taste, and definatelly should not be seen by the public, but was it criminal? I don't think so.. Could this couse trail closures? I don't think so.

No witnesses. No evidence. No damage. So what is the problem.
(other than this thread.)

My real reason for the thread was to ask who makes the decisions on what lines to delete, and why does it always seem to be the harder of the lines?

I have seen lines deleted that looked to me like an original line, while an easier line was left as the "trail."

 

[TreeClimber]

And you deserved to get flamed.

But kudos for taking the initiative to leave no trace behind. I wish it were as simple as : "no trace of damage = no damage", but unfortunately it's not the case. Anytime you destroy property, somebody, somehow, will use that against us to limit MY rights to continue wheeling.

Regarding the re-working of the trails at Evans, you can easily answer that question yourself, by attending the Work Parties, or going to the DNR & Forest Services meeting (which are open to public)

However it's been my opinion, that the DNR & Forest Services normally take into consideration factors completely different than 'trail difficulty' when making determinations. Normally they look at long-term maintainance, tree harvesting, silt erosion, etc....

 

[Ty.]

And you deserved to get flamed.

But kudos for taking the initiative to leave no trace behind. I wish it were as simple as : "no trace of damage = no damage", but unfortunately it's not the case. Anytime you destroy property, somebody, somehow, will use that against us to limit MY rights to continue wheeling.

Regarding the re-working of the trails at Evans, you can easily answer that question yourself, by attending the Work Parties, or going to the DNR & Forest Services meeting (which are open to public)

However it's been my opinion, that the DNR & Forest Services normally take into consideration factors completely different than 'trail difficulty' when making determinations. Normally they look at long-term maintainance, tree harvesting, silt erosion, etc....

The only property damaged was my friends Blazer.. How does that affect your right to wheel?


I appreciate your veiws on deleted lines.. Thank you for that info.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

Meh I just finished hauling the last of the rodeo I used as my wheeling go kart for abotu a year. Finally blew up something in the front end or transfer case after beating it as hard as I dared without bending the rear 44.

Point being I fully and totally understand the "demo wheeling" standpoint. It's not about demolishing the landscape or trails but the rig itself. You haven't had fun till you've beat a rig with absolutely no reguard for it's well being. :redneck:

 

[Ty.]

Meh I just finished hauling the last of the rodeo I used as my wheeling go kart for abotu a year. Finally blew up something in the front end or transfer case after beating it as hard as I dared without bending the rear 44.

Point being I fully and totally understand the "demo wheeling" standpoint. It's not about demolishing the landscape or trails but the rig itself. You haven't had fun till you've beat a rig with absolutely no reguard for it's well being. :redneck:

:beer:

 

[TreeClimber]

The only property damaged was my friends Blazer.. How does that affect your right to wheel?


I appreciate your veiws on deleted lines.. Thank you for that info.

As I said in my post "no trace of damage does not equal no damage". You've created a destroyed blazer, and you did it on MY wheeling spot. It's OUR wheeling spot. Just because you believe you've left no trace, doesn't mean you actually left no trace. Furthermore, any DNR or Forest Service or enviro-nazis lurkers, or some lady who happens to see the wrecked blazer, or whatever.... and they say "Oh look at those destructive 4x4ers... We should make what they do criminal". Yeah, perhaps I'm exagerating. But perhaps I'm not. You (and I) never really know what causes. There's a time and place to do these things. Just please don't do it on DNR or Forest Service land. As far as I'm concerned, you can wreck, burn, destroy, build trails, or whatever on private property. But when you do it on public land, you always create more risk for the rest of us.

It died of fatigue in the rock pit, and possibly some injuries incurred by my rig running over the hood, and tearing off some of its appendeges. All parts, and pieces where picked up, and removed.

Not trying to be picky, but do you really believe you didn't leak any antifreeze, or power steering fluid, or broken glass, or trans fluid, or oil, or paint chips from crinkled sheet metal, or tiny broken pieces of plastic corner marker lenses....

Yeah, you didn't damage the trails.
Yeah, you didn't damage the parking areas.

But your perception of 'no damage', doesn't necessarily mean that to DNR.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

Not trying to be picky, but do you really believe you didn't leak any antifreeze, or power steering fluid, or broken glass, or trans fluid, or oil, or paint chips from crinkled sheet metal, or tiny broken pieces of plastic corner marker lenses....

Yeah, you didn't damage the trails.
Yeah, you didn't damage the parking areas.

But your perception of 'no damage', doesn't necessarily mean that to DNR.

Oh come one that is chicken **** to single him out for that one. The same paint chips, glass pieces or marker light lenses come off of day to day wheeling rigs not just those that are out there bashing on their junk.

And not that it matters but my rodeo had no glass, lights, interior or leaks to leave a trace on the landscape. :flipoff:

 

[Ty.]

As I said in my post "no trace of damage does not equal no damage". You've created a destroyed blazer, and you did it on MY wheeling spot. It's OUR wheeling spot. Just because you believe you've left no trace, doesn't mean you actually left no trace. Furthermore, any DNR or Forest Service or enviro-nazis lurkers, or some lady who happens to see the wrecked blazer, or whatever.... and they say "Oh look at those destructive 4x4ers... We should make what they do criminal". Yeah, perhaps I'm exagerating. But perhaps I'm not. You (and I) never really know what causes. There's a time and place to do these things. Just please don't do it on DNR or Forest Service land. As far as I'm concerned, you can wreck, burn, destroy, build trails, or whatever on private property. But when you do it on public land, you always create more risk for the rest of us.

It died of fatigue in the rock pit, and possibly some injuries incurred by my rig running over the hood, and tearing off some of its appendeges. All parts, and pieces where picked up, and removed.

Not trying to be picky, but do you really believe you didn't leak any antifreeze, or power steering fluid, or broken glass, or trans fluid, or oil, or paint chips from crinkled sheet metal, or tiny broken pieces of plastic corner marker lenses....

Yeah, you didn't damage the trails.
Yeah, you didn't damage the parking areas.

But your perception of 'no damage', doesn't necessarily mean that to DNR.

Regarding the "enviro-nazi lurkers", I don't think it matters how tidy we try to appear to them. Short of driving a prius, and hiking into the woods with granola bars, and hemp shorts we will never please them.

As far as the last part of your post, you have struck a slight nerve of guilt in my heart, as I cannot 100% say absolutely zero particles, or trace was left.
I don't think he was leaking oil, and he was running straight water. No anti-freeze.
However, if we must all seek perfection, we will never reach it.

 

[TreeClimber]

Oh come one that is chicken **** to single him out for that one. The same paint chips, glass pieces or marker light lenses come off of day to day wheeling rigs not just those that are out there bashing on their junk.

And not that it matters but my rodeo had no glass, lights, interior or leaks to leave a trace on the landscape. :flipoff:

Wasn't trying to single anyone out. I was just trying to make the point. If you read my original post, you'll clearly see I was speaking in generalities. However his post seemed to be requesting specifics, so I was using examples. Nothing more. Nothing less. And YES, I have been responsible for broken parts and pieces and leaks during the normal course of my wheeling endevours. But I don't DELIBERATELY endevour to cause destruction.

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

And YES, I have been responsible for broken parts and pieces and leaks during the normal course of my wheeling endevours. But I don't DELIBERATELY endevour to cause destruction.

I get what you're saying but the deliberate destruction isn't to the trail it is to the vehicle. When you take a stock rig to even a lame trail system you don't have to beat it all that hard to kill it. A rig that is built for wheeling will last a helluva lot longer and you won't beat it like you would the one you're trying to kill... :awesomework:

 

[Glenn]

I'm sure you think you were being careful and not leaving any traces, but it doesn't look good. It may give the wrong impression to others...others who will think demo wheeling is OK or others who are in a position to close the trails.

 

[pokey]

Every action has a equal reaction. How do you cave in a fender peening off trees without hurting a few trees :eeek: Behavior such as this is EXACTLY what turs the little support we have with the FS against us. It TOTALY UNACCEPTABLE behavior and use of our trails system and should not be tolereated in any way. We hear all the time how it was a bunch of drunk kids trashing the place but here we have one of our own doing the same thing :booo: Ty, what if the ranger had drove up while you were doing this ? would there still be no damage :eeek: Pretty stupid thing to do.

 

[Ty.]

Every action has a equal reaction. How do you cave in a fender peening off trees without hurting a few trees :eeek: Behavior such as this is EXACTLY what turs the little support we have with the FS against us. It TOTALY UNACCEPTABLE behavior and use of our trails system and should not be tolereated in any way. We hear all the time how it was a bunch of drunk kids trashing the place but here we have one of our own doing the same thing :booo: Ty, what if the ranger had drove up while you were doing this ? would there still be no damage :eeek: Pretty stupid thing to do.

We did not hit any trees. The damage done to the vehicle was from the fact that it was being excersized beyond its capabilities in a rock pit, and the fact that I physically abused it with my rig.

 

[Fordzuki]

So what is it that makes "demo wheeling" (which has yet to be defined) any worse than posting up carnage pics of a broken d60 from doing front digs in the parking lot of elbe hills? :stirpot::corn:

 

[pokey]

So what is it that makes "demo wheeling" (which has yet to be defined) any worse than posting up carnage pics of a broken d60 from doing front digs in the parking lot of elbe hills? :stirpot::corn:

Not much :booo:

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

We did not hit any trees. The damage done to the vehicle was from the fact that it was being excersized beyond its capabilities in a rock pit, and the fact that I physically abused it with my rig.

Werd, I used to "demo wheel" when I was **** faced down at TSF ping ponging off of tree's till my junk was a spit wad. Some people are acting like THAT is what happened which just isn't the case for you or I these days.