open carry

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messix said:
i answered that. only if you are being cited for an infraction, so therefore probable cause.
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According to your link if there's no law in place clarifying then it's not unlawful for a LEO to require you produce ID when asked.....infraction or not.
It's just a matter of what state laws says and I can find nothing soooo.....
By default you have to give it up.
 
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Binder said:
No you don't have to be cited for a infraction.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.021
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again this only pertains to the opperation of a motor vehicle.....

"1) Any person requested or signaled to stop by a law enforcement officer for a traffic infraction has a duty to stop.

(2) Whenever any person is stopped for a traffic infraction, the officer may detain that person for a reasonable period of time necessary to identify the person, check for outstanding warrants, check the status of the person's license, insurance identification card, and the vehicle's registration, and complete and issue a notice of traffic infraction.

(3) Any person requested to identify himself or herself to a law enforcement officer pursuant to an investigation of a traffic infraction has a duty to identify himself or herself and give his or her current address."



notice that all three [3] state the word "infraction": "for a traffic infraction", and " investigation of a traffic infraction"!

no where does it state "just because the officer wants to be a **** and hassle you for no reason"......
 
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Binder said:
According to your link if there's no law in place clarifying then it's not unlawful for a LEO to require you produce ID when asked.....infraction or not.
It's just a matter of what state laws says and I can find nothing soooo.....
By default you have to give it up.
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you find that law that states that id must be given for any reason upon demand.....

it's on you to provide the proof of your arguement....

i can not prove proof for some thing that is not there....
 
messix said:
you find that law that states that id must be given for any reason upon demand.....

it's on you to provide the proof of your arguement....

i can not prove proof for some thing that is not there....
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You have a point. I think I stated wrong about "required by default". I think it should have read "it's up to state law" which I can't find anything clarifying.......May or may not be.
 
also i referenced statements by tenured law enforcement officers that have had substantial years in knowledge of washington state law....

if you are more of and expert on washington state law and rcw than the 2 officers that i personally know and trust, then im sure you can provide proof to back up your statements.
 
messix said:
also i referenced statements by tenured law enforcement officers that have had substantial years in knowledge of washington state law....

if you are more of and expert on washington state law and rcw than the 2 officers that i personally know and trust, then im sure you can provide proof to back up your statements.
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:haha: I don't claim to be an expert on anything much less law..... But I don't take a cops wordm for it just because. Very often they are wrong that's why we have courts.:awesomework:
 
so you don't trust 2 cops saying that there is no law that you think that is a law and can not prove the law exists..... :haha::looser:
 
thank aint gonna work on me....


great great great great grand ma had six illegitimate kids sired by a plantation owner in Virginia and his last name was Black. :eeek:

so don't think that works for this homie!:awesomework:
 
messix said:
so you don't trust 2 cops saying that there is no law that you think that is a law and can not prove the law exists..... :haha::looser:
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First no I don't trust two cops and second read it again!!!
Not much on reading are you?:awesomework:

Binder said:
I'm not saying there is or isn't I was asking you where you got the information from.................
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I was in an environment this last summer where packing was the cool thing. I thought it was funny that I was there 7 days a week and never have an fire arm on me and never had a problem. A lot of time alone for the entire day.

I would always see the 9mm in the way cool holster and have to laugh as they acted all tuff with their gun attached to them. So I always had to ask why they pack. The number one reason was to protect them from a bear or mountain lion. :eeek::haha:

Um ya can you say
 
nowires said:
I was in an environment this last summer where packing was the cool thing. I thought it was funny that I was there 7 days a week and never have an fire arm on me and never had a problem. A lot of time alone for the entire day.

I would always see the 9mm in the way cool holster and have to laugh as they acted all tuff with their gun attached to them. So I always had to ask why they pack. The number one reason was to protect them from a bear or mountain lion. :eeek::haha:

Um ya can you say
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CHOP SHOP said:
Ive seen bear in Kapowsin, Bobcat at Copper Creek, and a Cougar at the base of Kernahan (high rock). Occasionally we get the common "ghetto panther" at the shooting pit too.
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The joke is, they think a 9 is going to stop a bear comming at them.:D I see wildlife all of the time. They are just checking me out and I have never had a problem in the woods. I have a bobcat living on my property. Cougers at the front door and bears walk through the place every once in a while.

In my belief, have a gun big enough to do the job that you intend it to do
 
Ive walked through the woods everday for the last 2 summers and never felt threatened by any wildlife. ****, I've had bears run the opposite direction of me as soon as they see me. I feel no reason to open carry, even in the woods. (It is nice to have a dog as an "alarm," then ya don't feel the need to have to watch your back all the time)

Its the not wildlife that you need worry about, its the people. Luckly with a little common sense, you can generally avoid them.
 
nowires said:
I was in an environment this last summer where packing was the cool thing. I thought it was funny that I was there 7 days a week and never have an fire arm on me and never had a problem. A lot of time alone for the entire day.

I would always see the 9mm in the way cool holster and have to laugh as they acted all tuff with their gun attached to them. So I always had to ask why they pack. The number one reason was to protect them from a bear or mountain lion. :eeek::haha:

Um ya can you say
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Binder said:
:haha: I don't claim to be an expert on anything much less law..... But I don't take a cops wordm for it just because. Very often they are wrong that's why we have courts.:awesomework:
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messix said:
you funny guy!!!!

just submit *****! lol :D you lost that logic argument!!!
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Binder's standpoint on things is a solid, safe place to be. Erring on the side of caution due to uncertainty is smarter than being arrogant and ending up with more trouble than you started with.

On the flip side, Messix, is there really a need for name calling? We're a few adults here, having an ADULT discussion. Let's leave the nasty names out of it.

To follow that up. The link you posted states that IF there is not a law in place requiring an individual to give up their identification, their address upon giving up that identification may be barred (read: overturned).

Thus, until SOMEBODY finds an RCW (IE something state sponsored and IN WRITING), it could be assumed that an individual does NOT have to give up their identification while not operating a motor vehicle.
 
wentz912 said:
Thus, until SOMEBODY finds an RCW (IE something state sponsored and IN WRITING), it could be assumed that an individual does NOT have to give up their identification while not operating a motor vehicle.
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Correct, that's what I got out of it too. Further it's up to the state to make such a law. In the mean time an individual is just hopeing there's no law in place unoticed somewhere.
 
Reason for carrying= Cause I can and want to. I would rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it. I don't act tough just cause I have it with me. Hell I may talk more **** when I don't. I have been in situations where having the gun in sight on my hip has maybe helped keep issue from happening. Also being that I live one block from the cop shop and have had a guy try to rip open my front door, around 1 pm while the wife was in the living room is enough to tell me people will pull some ****. I carry and my wife is getting her CPL so she can as well, just not open.
 
Didn't want to hijack the Denny's thread for this.

My wife knows a cop, and he told her that if a business has a sign up stating "no guns allowed" that it has no authority, and you, the average joe can still carry in that establishment, even open carry.

.Is he correct?--Or, is he possibly confusing something his chief told him regarding his rights as a cop?

I have open carried on occasion, but don't think I would cause a scene in a business that
told me I was not welcome to do that there. Although I would still carry concealed.
 
Ty. said:
Didn't want to hijack the Denny's thread for this.

My wife knows a cop, and he told her that if a business has a sign up stating "no guns allowed" that it has no authority, and you, the average joe can still carry in that establishment, even open carry.

.Is he correct?--Or, is he possibly confusing something his chief told him regarding his rights as a cop?

I have open carried on occasion, but don't think I would cause a scene in a business that
told me I was not welcome to do that there. Although I would still carry concealed.
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To the best of my knowledge (no comments from the peanut gallery!), the only thing they can do is make you leave if you don't leave your weapon in the car. Worst you can face is trespassing charges for refusing to leave.
 
ZedMikey said:
To the best of my knowledge (no comments from the peanut gallery!), the only thing they can do is make you leave if you don't leave your weapon in the car. Worst you can face is trespassing charges for refusing to leave.
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That's what I was thinking. The way my wife relayed the story was that they had no right to ask you to leave, because open carry is a right.

But walking around without shoes, and no shirt cussing like a sailor is also a right, and a bussiness can tell you to move along for that.

Most likely the ol' lady misunderstood what he was tryin' to say to her...
 
ZedMikey said:
To the best of my knowledge (no comments from the peanut gallery!), the only thing they can do is make you leave if you don't leave your weapon in the car. Worst you can face is trespassing charges for refusing to leave.
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This is the way I understood it also.
 
Ty. said:
That's what I was thinking. The way my wife relayed the story was that they had no right to ask you to leave, because open carry is a right.

But walking around without shoes, and no shirt cussing like a sailor is also a right, and a bussiness can tell you to move along for that.

Most likely the ol' lady misunderstood what he was tryin' to say to her...
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Quite likely. He probably said something like "they can't tell you you have to remove your weapon." Which is technically true, but a little misleading. They can tell you you have to remove your weapon or leave their premises, though.
 
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Is there any part of the law stating how open the carry has to be. For instance 10% showing etc. Black plastic in a black non gun shaped holster might not look like much compared to chrome hanging from a hook. ???
 

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