When trail maintainance Bammer

I am going to bitch about something I have never participated in, using steel where tires go.

Some of you might tell me not to bitch unless you have a better option etc or "thats how we always do it", or if you were there than maybe.............yadda yadda.

I see steel in the woods and it pisses me off.

I see steel on bridges and it pisses me off.

I see steel spikes on rub rails and it pisses me off.

This is the kind of stuff Im talking about.

Who in their right mind thought that railroad iron was a water bar?

Like this tire killer. This could cost someone $200-$300.

We evolved and figured out that steel nails work better than wood ones. Why would a piece of old train track used as a water bar be a issue for you ? (not that I have seen that done)

OK now I see the pic. and your point. Are you sure it was put there on purpous and not that the trail is on a old railroad grade (several at Elbe are and have been) and the track got exposed from erosion ?

Its on the mainline and to the left of it the valley drops. I thought of old tracks too but it is not in a spot that lends itself to effecient track placement.

The bridge on Sunrise also has steel plates (about 8"x8") with 4 holes that obviously hold one timber to the next but almost all were missing the fasteners and were sticking up like spike strips. In one direction they will lay dpwn but the other they WILL shred a tire easily.

If this railroad iron was put there as a water bar on purpose then the corners should have at least been rounded off with a torch.

The plates I understand need to be there for structure. But the spikes tend to pull up and protrude out as the timbers get flexed up and down till the spiked are up several inches. At that point they fall out and get picked up by tires.

Carriage bolts would be a much more tire friendly choice and would not pull up like spikes.

Also the corners of those plated should have been rounded off with a torch.

An oxy ace torch is cordless, no electricity, nothing hard to use/source. There is no excuse for tire shredders in the woods.

If there needs to be a set of torches the next time work is done call me up. I will eat the gas and labor to do this properly next time bridge fixxin goes on.

It is needed badly on the sunrise.

Sounds like a plan, Next workparty that I know of is the last weekend of April. That dosent mean by any means that this couldnt be dealt with sooner. Just contact Nancy and make it happen :awesomework:

BTW the old mainline was a old railroad siding when they logged the area so many years ago. May be part of the old tracks or just a piece that got tossed and buried over the years.

Our club (Timber Tamers) Built the bridges on the sunrise at Elbe.

We built them to DNR spec except for a few of the plastic "supports" or whatever you call them underneath. The huge black logs or whatever. We did omit a few with the permission of the DNR because it seemed wasetful.

Anywho, I know what you are talking about. Really on the steel supports? I will willingly drive my jeep over and over that spot to prove those bridges are worthy. I could understand if the fasteners stuck up and punctured a tire but the steel supports?

I do know that the DNR hired an engineer to build those bridges for them. This engineer built those bridges ON PAPER and then we were asked/told to implement his designs.

The bridge on the bottom of the busy, except for the crenelations on where we got the wrong size bolts for the rub rails, is exactly what he wanted.

If these designs fail to meet what we as wheelers need, I/you/all wheelers need to let Nancy Barker know that they are not meeting our needs.

pokey said:

Sounds like a plan, Next workparty that I know of is the last weekend of April. That dosent mean by any means that this couldnt be dealt with sooner. Just contact Nancy and make it happen :awesomework:

BTW the old mainline was a old railroad siding when they logged the area so many years ago. May be part of the old tracks or just a piece that got tossed and buried over the years.

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I would love to help get the bridges in order. Looks like I need to weld some bottle holders on to the Elbe Trail trailer.

Im afraid to try to winch that RR iron out cuz if its very long or too stuck I just might pull it up and make it worse.

Maybe a job for the next time we have the Tahuya Mini hoe out there.

Also, what is the difference between a steel tire killer and a natural wood one?

At Elbe, I've personally seen 4x4 parts "left" in mudholes that have KILLED tires.

Yes if you have built a tire killing bridge it should be attended to, but a railroad strip left in the trail for good intentions or not? That isn't a tire killer anymore than a rock is.

Good EYE Brad!!!:awesomework:

CHOP SHOP said:

Like this tire killer. This could cost someone $200-$300.

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Are you talking about the railroad tie or the rock?

KarlVP said:

Our club (Timber Tamers) Built the bridges on the sunrise at Elbe.

We built them to DNR spec except for a few of the plastic "supports" or whatever you call them underneath. The huge black logs or whatever. We did omit a few with the permission of the DNR because it seemed wasetful.

Anywho, I know what you are talking about. Really on the steel supports? I will willingly drive my jeep over and over that spot to prove those bridges are worthy. I could understand if the fasteners stuck up and punctured a tire but the steel supports?

I do know that the DNR hired an engineer to build those bridges for them. This engineer built those bridges ON PAPER and then we were asked/told to implement his designs.

The bridge on the bottom of the busy, except for the crenelations on where we got the wrong size bolts for the rub rails, is exactly what he wanted.

If these designs fail to meet what we as wheelers need, I/you/all wheelers need to let Nancy Barker know that they are not meeting our needs.

Click to expand...

I think we are on differnt pages Karl. The supports look fine (I was under there filling water jugs with clean runoff actually!)

Its on top. They are square plated that lay ON TOP of the timbers. They connect the firs timber to the second and then the second timber to the third and so on.

The plates are fine and much needed but they are all loose with NO fastners left and the ones with just one or two stick up like one way spikes at a parking garage.

I didnt get a pic but i drew you a master piece.

KarlVP said:

Also, what is the difference between a steel tire killer and a natural wood one?

At Elbe, I've personally seen 4x4 parts "left" in mudholes that have KILLED tires.

Yes if you have built a tire killing bridge it should be attended to, but a railroad strip left in the trail for good intentions or not? That isn't a tire killer anymore than a rock is.

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I dont mind when nature ruins my parts. But when its artificial man made carnage folks like to point a finger at some one with a name other than Mother Nature.

KarlVP said:

Are you talking about the railroad tie or the rock?

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No that rocks cool, I like it.:kissmyass:

CHOP SHOP said:

I dont mind when nature ruins my parts. But when its artificial man made carnage folks like to point a finger at some one with a name other than Mother Nature.

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We should really work together on this because those bridges were built by wheelers, for wheelers.

:awesomework:
I would have to see the bridge thing in person to get a feel for it.

Honestly i don't see any tire destroyers on the bridges.

Lets work together to correct the problem.

KarlVP said:

We should really work together on this because those bridges were built by wheelers, for wheelers.

Lets work together to correct the problem.

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I agree one hundred percent.

CHOP SHOP said:

The plates are fine and much needed but they are all loose with NO fastners left and the ones with just one or two stick up like one way spikes at a parking garage.

I didnt get a pic but i drew you a master piece.

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Nice drawing!:haha: But hey, what about instead of a bunch of little steel plates, run one long plate down each edge of the bridge (how thick are the existing plates?), and use one or two carriage bolts per board to secure the bridgetop to the steel??? I have not personally seen this bridge, but could that work?

zukkev said:

Nice drawing!:haha: But hey, what about instead of a bunch of little steel plates, run one long plate down each edge of the bridge (how thick are the existing plates?), and use one or two carriage bolts per board to secure the bridgetop to the steel??? I have not personally seen this bridge, but could that work?

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you just reminded me. The bridge on gotcha is exactly like that. One end of the steel strap is unhooked on it too and curled up just waiting for a sidewall.

Chop,
If you're willing to bring gas into the woods, then go ahead and try winchng the railroad out of the way. If it bends or is made worse, just cut the fawker off with the gas.
Or, just cut it off first, 'cause who wants to drag a whole lenght of railroad tie out of the woods behind a rig. That ****'s HEAVY.
Two cents
Tony

Brad...

I was at the work party when the Sunrise bridges were rebuilt. The steel plates you speak of are actually welded to the steel support beams:







The rest of the pictures can be seen HERE.

BTW...nice to meet you yesterday :beer: