? about possible diamond frame(sas)

[toyodaaddict]

Im working on a toy/zuk project and after getting the front suspension hung I'm wondering if I might have a bit of a diamond shape tweak in the samurai frame. The front axle apears to sit a little crooked. I re did the front spring/shackle hangers using the rear spring front hangers as my main measuring point and all my hangers measure the same down the frame rails. I attempted to measure the mounts x ways corner to corner but really need an extra set of hans to be dead on, but I believe its square within a 1/4''. So while Im waiting on an extra set of hands to help measure, I was hoping to get some thoughts on this. Would the frame rails/mounts being out a 1/4'' even cause an issue, or would it be taken up in the bushings?

 

[zukkev]

Double/Triple check your measurements before getting too concerned...By crooked (front axle), how exactly do you mean crooked? Take some good pics, and post em up...

 

[toyodaaddict]

Double/Triple check your measurements before getting too concerned...By crooked (front axle), how exactly do you mean crooked? Take some good pics, and post em up...

Thanks for the response. I have measured multiple times down the frame rails and the mounts all line up good. I measured x ways from left front shackle hanger to right front spring hanger, this distance is 1/8'' more than the distance from right shackle hanger to left spring hanger. So some thing is out of wack somewhere. Is 1/8'' inch out of square anything to worry about? This thing will see road time.

Like I say the mounts all line up down the rails so I dont know whats up. I should also say that I think most of what I am seeing in the axle is an illusion, I looked at a stock toy an its axle looked crooked to.

I have allways wondered how much tolerance there is for being off on mounts when building a rig. I allways spend alot of time worrying about getting things dead on but I suspect bushings make it less important than I think?

 

[WHITE TRASH1]

1/8" isn't a damned thing to worry about. Put it together and if it drives oddly get a 4 wheel alignment and find out where you need to correct things.

 

[zukkev]

1/8" you won't notice...but If you are after perfection, have a 4wheel done on it like Trashypoo said, and get her dialed in from there...
:awesomework:

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Run a string line off the rear wheels to the front.


Make sure the string comes off the rear edge of the rear rims and JUST touches the front lip of the rear rim and then see where it intersects on the front tire or haw far outside of it.

Then check the other side. Measurement is not critical, just make sure they are the same from side to side.

If its diamond shaped, then one rear tire will be further outside than the other.


I run inter frames with one side shorter than the other more often than diamond ones.

 

[Fordzuki]

Generally speaking, 4-5mm is within spec on a laser measuring system. So your 1/8" sounds about right.

Are you putting toy axles under a zook with leafs?

 

[toyodaaddict]

Run a string line off the rear wheels to the front.


Make sure the string comes off the rear edge of the rear rims and JUST touches the front lip of the rear rim and then see where it intersects on the front tire or haw far outside of it.

Then check the other side. Measurement is not critical, just make sure they are the same from side to side.

If its diamond shaped, then one rear tire will be further outside than the other.


I run inter frames with one side shorter than the other more often than diamond ones.

Thanks, I'll give this a try. Hopefully Im good to go, sounds like I probably am. What happens when one side is shorter than the other, the mounts are closer together on one side?

Generally speaking, 4-5mm is within spec on a laser measuring system. So your 1/8" sounds about right.

Are you putting toy axles under a zook with leafs?

Yes, toyota axle,trans,motor and yj leafs. http://www.zukikrawlers.com/showthread.php?t=53995

 

[Fordzuki]

There's some holes in the bottom of the frame that can be used for measurements and cross measurements. Measure from the edge of the hole to one of the holes in your hangers, both front to back and crossed from side to side. If any of your hangers are off, it'll tell you which one, as well as whether the frame has any diamond. Choppy's right though, you're way more likely to crush or sway a rail than diamond the center box. You should have slight adjustment with your centering pins on the springs, but I wouldn't count on getting more than 1/8" overall.
You can make a tram gauge out of a couple pieces of small diameter tube with one sliding inside the other. Weld some long bolts to the tubes to make L shapes, and slide the one tube into the other. Weld a nut to the outer tube and use a bolt to lock the two together. Set it between two holes on one side and check the other side.
When I aligned my rig, I set the ride height first, making sure all 4 corners of the frame measure equal distance to a flat, level shop floor. Then measure from symmetrical holes in the frame to the lower front bearing cup bolt on the rear axle, and for the front, measure up from the floor and find the centerpoint of the axle tube at the weld for the inner knuckle, and make a mark.
To answer your original question about the bushings taking up the slack, they won't, unless you get crazy and make some eccentric ones. :redneck:

 

[Clark]

Im working on a toy/zuk project and after getting the front suspension hung I'm wondering if I might have a bit of a diamond shape tweak in the samurai frame. The front axle apears to sit a little crooked. I re did the front spring/shackle hangers using the rear spring front hangers as my main measuring point and all my hangers measure the same down the frame rails. I attempted to measure the mounts x ways corner to corner but really need an extra set of hans to be dead on, but I believe its square within a 1/4''. So while Im waiting on an extra set of hands to help measure, I was hoping to get some thoughts on this. Would the frame rails/mounts being out a 1/4'' even cause an issue, or would it be taken up in the bushings?

Sounds like it's "close enough" but if you end up needing a hand measuring or anything, let me know, i'll come help you out.

Clark

 

[toyodaaddict]

Sounds like it's "close enough" but if you end up needing a hand measuring or anything, let me know, i'll come help you out.

Clark

Thanks for the offer, If Icant get this sorted out I may take you up on it. Are you in the maple valley area?

I dont know what is going on, this is my 4th build and Ive never had an issue getting my mounts lined up/square. A friend stopped by for a minute so we measured x ways from front spring rear hangers to rear spring front hangers and thats out of square 3/8'' Either im dumb ( entirely possible ) or something is up with this frame

Thanks for all the suggestions, I will try to put them to use:beer:.

 

[Clark]

Thanks for the offer, If Icant get this sorted out I may take you up on it. Are you in the maple valley area?

yep, i think i'm your neighbor.

 

[Dogboy]

I'll agree with Fordzuki.
I go by 3-5mm, unless it's a Toyota, which should be about dead on.

I'd make sure the center section is level and square, then move to the rest of the frame. If there's a diamond, it will show up in the centersection.

If you need, and it's a roller, we have a frame rack and computer measuring system at work. We're in Enumclaw.

 

[toyodaaddict]

After spending alot of time banging my head against the wall Im more confused than when I started. I believe the factory stuff was out to begin with. Things seem to be out of square 3/16-1/4'' and the rear seems to be out one way and the front the other, yet the mounts all measure the same down the frame rails. Apparently I dont know what Im doing. I'm going to put together a tram gauge like Fordzuki suggested but in the end things will likely stay as they are and I'll hope for the best, do to lack of skills to do anything about it. Not much of anything on this frame seems to measure the same, the alignment holes Fordzuki mentioned are even out 1/8'' on one rail compared to the other.

sounds like when its done if it doesnt act right I can have it put on a frame machine to tell me what I need to move.