Looking for a structural or civil engineer

[Travis1]

I thought we had one or two here.

What I was hoping is that someone might know of one that could design, or help design then stamp a bridge we need to put up in Tahuya. Obviously, I'm hoping for free or damn near next to free work for a 4x4 trail system.

I'm pretty sure I have a CAD person for drawings, I'm pretty sure I have access to a surveyor too. I can do any legwork for design requirements, including examples of existing bridges the DNR has built.

I've been told by the DNR that the DNR engineers will have no issues with a non-DNR designed bridge as long as it's got the engineer's stamp.

Without this bridge, we may eventually have a problem with the South Loop, remaining a Loop.

 

[nowires]

Look online. there are a lot out there already. run about $1,000 a foot

DNR has a lot of information on file already. How long of a bridge do you need and what is it used for

 

[Travis1]

I was hoping we might have an engineer on this board, or someone might know of one that would be willing to help for a good cause. (I understand there's some risk here for that person, but I'm thinking if it's overbuilt enough, the risk could be mitigated enough to make them comfortable?)

I need to go look at the decent angles to the existing culvert and do some quick math, but I'm going to guess the length at 70' or so, just to keep it high enough above the high water mark and have enough bank to "restore" the largely seasonal creek to nature. (I say "restore" because it hasn't had a natural bank since practically the dawn of time, it was ancient logging road.)

 

[JOOP]

Where on the south loop? At the beginning??

 

[beyatch]

I know of one, he rarely drives my jeep but brings me coffee everyday when I wake up :whip:

The problem I foresee is the stamp carries liability issues

I will ask

 

[64FJ40]

I'm not licensed yet = no stamp.


I'm curious about the problem though since I do drainage infrastructure design including retrofit projects on stream culverts for capacity, fish passage, and habitat.

Did DNR say you need a bridge?

 

[Travis1]

Where on the south loop? At the beginning??

Far end of the loop, where the culvert is.

We have two 18's or two 24's in that hole right now. I'm only guess this came up when we discovered issues with them clogging up.

I'm not licensed yet = no stamp.


I'm curious about the problem though since I do drainage infrastructure design including retrofit projects on stream culverts for capacity, fish passage, and habitat.

Did DNR say you need a bridge?

DNR says we need a bridge.

If plan 1 would work, we have 90% of the materials already. If it's plan 2, we have maybe 1/3 of the materials or more dollar wise.

 

[nowires]

I'm not licensed yet = no stamp.


I'm curious about the problem though since I do drainage infrastructure design including retrofit projects on stream culverts for capacity, fish passage, and habitat.

Did DNR say you need a bridge?

Sounds like you need to sejust some money saving ideas. But not knowing the total problem it is hard to solve

 

[boardbysled]

Reroute?

$70,000 could build ya another couple of miles of trail easily...

 

[Travis1]

Sounds like you need to sejust some money saving ideas. But not knowing the total problem it is hard to solve

If it were up to me, I'de just go for a larger culvert.

My money saving idea to get what we want, keeping the south loop a loop, and getting what they want, a bridge; was to see if I could find an engineer that would be willing to take the chance with us.

If I can find that, I think the rest is all doable.

 

[Travis1]

Reroute?

$70,000 could build ya another couple of miles of trail easily...

Re-route is very likely out of the question. First, I think one way or another you have to cross the thing to tie the two halves together (I'de have to confirm that) Second, we are limited on mileage. Even if we get the go ahead to drop trail in, we would have to agree where trail would be coming out.

Right now, we are working with an old existing logging road. Heck, there's even a gate at the end of it, seemingly in the middle of nowhere. Literally, I would have no issues driving a honda civic back in this short section of the trail. So, we aren't building anything new per se, we are just maintaining something that has been there for a long time.

 

[Travis1]

I know of one, he rarely drives my jeep but brings me coffee everyday when I wake up :whip:

The problem I foresee is the stamp carries liability issues

I will ask

That would be great.

There's no way to get rid of the liability issue. But we also aren't looking to build the ship canal bridge either. If we could just use an existing train car, it would likely cover the span just fine and be no more than 3-5' above grade at it's highest.

 

[64FJ40]

We have two 18's or two 24's in that hole right now. I'm only guess this came up when we discovered issues with them clogging up.

Tandem culvert systems are a bad idea all the way around. Yeah, it technically doubles the capacity, but I swear they get plugged up so much in natural drainage systems that most of the time it would be better to just have one.

Two 24s have about the same capacity as a single 36". If they're CMP and you're replacing with plastic, the 36" plastic would actually flow significantly more water and pass just about all the debris you'd normally find getting washed down a seasonal stream.

DNR says we need a bridge.

If it isn't a capacity issue, it seems pretty ridiculous to require a bridge where a 36" culvert or a squashed 48" would be more than adequate. I haven't seen the site, but that's my first thought. Depending on cover depth, you're talking about maybe 20' of enclosed streambed that's already been enclosed for 70+ years? The bridge idea requires bank stabilization and restoration, not to mention the exponentially higher cost of materials, installation, and design.

It sounds like they're setting you up to fail. Even the WDFW fisheries biologists I deal with aren't that crazy.

 

[Binder]

It sounds like they're setting you up to fail.

Yup!:awesomework: That's what happens when managers tell you what to do rather than give you a set of guidelines to follow. It may very well require a bridge but I would be willing to bet that other options were never really concidered.

 

[Travis1]

All I can say, is, it is what it is.

And as assnine as it might sound, the bridge is probably the easiest to deploy solution.

 

[mark]

http://www.oldcastleprecast.com/pla...ents/ec66571b-25f1-4e7b-b9db-96b9dcc1f441.pdf

Its a bridge and a culvert. Engineered and premanufactured. Heck pricing usually included delivery (they are made in Auburn) and if its assessable (which sounds like it is) there's a possibility they could set it as well (I know with vaults they do/can).


:redneck:

 

[64FJ40]

http://www.oldcastleprecast.com/pla...ents/ec66571b-25f1-4e7b-b9db-96b9dcc1f441.pdf

Its a bridge and a culvert. Engineered and premanufactured. Heck pricing usually included delivery (they are made in Auburn) and if its assessable (which sounds like it is) there's a possibility they could set it as well (I know with vaults they do/can).


:redneck:

That's a box culvert, not a bridge. If DNR said it has to be a bridge, it can't have footings in the wetted perimeter of the stream.

 

[Travis1]

well, that's cool. but holy ****, if I gotta span 20' and only be 3' tall at that point, that's a 19ton section to lift and place. even going to 21' and two 5' wide sections it's 13 tons a section.

There's no way a crane that size could get back in there without having to build a road. A 50 ton excavator, could likely make it in, and one that size could lift 5' sections in to place.

Could use two excavators, H-25 has a inventory rating of 45 tons, so tracking a 25 ton excavator back across to get it home would be a non-issue.

I'll have to contact them for a rough cost, just out of curiousity.

 

[Travis1]

That's a box culvert, not a bridge. If DNR said it has to be a bridge, it can't have footings in the wetted perimeter of the stream.

The 5' version spans far enough, it might be doable, but that all depends on what they say the setbacks must be.

Definitely something to gauge the price on with everything else and keep in the back pocket as a solution.

 

[jeffroadams]

How long and wide is this trail you can take a civic down cause if there is enough room you might be able to have UV set it for you. A 300 size machine has a track width of. About 12' plus the swing radius which takes a bit of room