Mandatory Vaccination

[j-mox]

So this has to be a common subject for many at this point and wanting to discuss and see others opinions, views and situation.

For myself we are being mandated to be fully vaxxed by Nov. 1st or have to test weekly at our own expense, have a approved medical or religious exemption or be terminated. As with most I believe this is ridiculous and far overstep of the powers that be. There is a group at my work that has started forming and is growing fast. Currently at around 250 people last I heard and picking up steam. We had a protest along the highway this morning with a good turnout and even included people from other businesses that are facing the same situation.

Wondering how others are handling this or thoughts. And its not about anti-vax but about choice.

 

[TBItoy]

I can't believe it's got as politicized as it has. But upon doing some reading apparently vaccine hesitancy/pushback has always been pretty common.

I know people that have died in past 2 months that shouldn't have died from a respiratory infection and any other time wouldn't have been too concerned about a nasty cold or flu.

That's what pushed me over to get a shot (and the follow up after 3 weeks). The first shot didn't phase me. 2nd shot I ran a low fever the next day and that was it.

I don't think anything should be mandated, especially by the government.

On the other hand I can also see where a business might require vaccination because they think it will keep them up and running vs dealing with an outbreak that could shut down whole departments or even the entire facility.

I work at a small shop, 10 employees or so. About half got vaxed as soon as it was available, the other half of us waited till we had friends and/or family die from it.

 

[jeeptj99]

So this has to be a common subject for many at this point and wanting to discuss and see others opinions, views and situation.

For myself we are being mandated to be fully vaxxed by Nov. 1st or have to test weekly at our own expense, have a approved medical or religious exemption or be terminated. As with most I believe this is ridiculous and far overstep of the powers that be. There is a group at my work that has started forming and is growing fast. Currently at around 250 people last I heard and picking up steam. We had a protest along the highway this morning with a good turnout and even included people from other businesses that are facing the same situation.

Wondering how others are handling this or thoughts. And its not about anti-vax but about choice.

Where do you work?

 

[Beerj]

Personally, I think the mandatory vaccines are bs. I'm even saying that as someone who got the shot. I'm sure I've put far worse into my body over the years, and I got all the rest of the normal vaccines you get as a kid. So wasn't worried there. Felt perfectly fine after both shots. But, I also agree that nobody should tell anyone what to do with their body. You want to risk getting sick and dying? Knock yourself out. I think this is one of those things where you have to look out for yourself.

My employer (closely tied to the gubment) originally mandated get the shot or submit weekly testing. Since then, they've changed to vaccine only, unless you can get a medical or religious exemption. I only know of a few guys that are planning to leave if they can't get either of those. One fella is probably looking at a 60k salary loss if he goes where he said. Others don't even know where they'll go. And their reasons range from wanting to make sure there's no infertility issues, to just plain not wanting to do it because they were told to. As for the latter, that's silly in my opinion. Our employer has thousands of rules and policies that these guys follow every day. So not sure why they're picking this hill to die on.

All that said, none of that affects me. And that's my view on this whole thing. Everyone can still make their own choice. Even with a mandate, you can choose to get the vax or find another job. I'm sure most would rather better options but I'm not sure there's much that can be done at this point. The courts have pretty well set precedent.

 

[rugger99]

As far as my opinion regarding the vaccination mandates, well....the mandates are unjustified. At the end of the day it should be the individuals choice whether they choose to get the vaccine or not. I have not gotten the vaccine nor do I intend to until there is more long term data. I can appreciate why certain fields (healthcare, military, etc...) feel the need for their workers to be protected but forcing someone to either get the vaccine or lose their job is horse****. Yes, the Covid 19 virus is a nasty mofo and it has absolutely crushed some people but it is also the straw that is breaking the camels back in a lot of the cases. Look at how many people fall victim to the ordinary flu every year. Look at how many people die from complications caused by obesity every year. The issue with compliance to these vaccine mandates, in my opinion, is that once we start giving up our personal rights to make our own decisions, where does it end?

 

[easleycrawler]

I ain't taking it. They can stick it up their ****ing ass.

 

[clutchee]

I was one who wasn’t getting it, then new job requires me to travel internationally. So I got it, no side effects. Wife works for Gob contractor, she took it. They have too.

Question I wonder, if you have sinus, other ailments, you get sick, your diag w covid. You get really sick, you have covid but your compromised or older. It sucks, truly does.

Then another thought, we are so worried about being vaccinated, but what about your MMR, and all those shots as kids we took, ain’t no one asked about those?? Now at 43 it’s did I take a shot from few weeks ago.

This virus is shutting down economy and also business at crazy rate, then no workers cause of gov subsidized, then no one to run parts.


How do we make sure we sustain economy vs having workers being vaccinated? Seems nuts.

 

[Mongo44]

I work in healthcare. It was in our employment agreement upon accepting a position here that we have to be vaccinated and get flu shots. When you get a job here we require proof of all the childhood vaccinations and anyone that doesn't have them on day 1 gets sent for them before they report to their actual department. The people that were shocked they could get fired for it when its literally in black and white on the offer is shocking.

 

[Lil ugly]

If I thought that getting the vaccine was going to make this go away I would agree that people should be required to get a vaccine. However it wont, the only goal from getting vaccinated is that the holes in our medical system wont be made apparent. Having choices is what makes us free. The government is not qualified to balance a check book much less make medical decisions for everyone.

 

[j-mox]

Where do you work?

Large paper factory

Got tons of heavily mixed feelings on this subject but really do NOT want this shot. Seeing more and more side effects starting to come to light and being exposed. There is a HUGE coverup on this whole Covid deal in many ways. Call me a conspiracy theorist but never in my life has the government pushed something so hard that I can remember. There is more to this. And you cannot get straight answers anymore or reliable research due to the push.

More I read the worse it gets and big one for me is how quick it came out with no long term effect knowledge. Just here you are its a miracle and everyone must get it. And that you can be vaxxed, but still get it, still spread it, still have to mask and social distance, and now get boosters because it isn’t working.

Lady at my work had her sister die 9 days after shot, just dropped, and sister in law die of Covid while fully vaxxed. All within maybe 2 month or less period. Talked to nurse on Wednesday who said that over 50% of beds with people on ventilators where she worked were fully vaxxed.

Idk. Its a bad deal but I believe the numbers are being skewed so badly there is no reliable scope of how bad or how minor the situation is.

 

[Beerj]

 

[TBItoy]

It's not a miracle, nor was it "really" developed that quick (Operation Warp Speed was a publicity stunt).
The base work for this type of vaccine had already been done for other coronaviruses over the past decade (bird flu, swine flu, MERS, etc), but the spread of those viruses never really took off to the point that specific vaccines were needed for widespread distribution.

One big kicker of vaccine development, is finding people willing to be infected/exposed to a virus, without running the risk of spreading the virus... well during a pandemic it's pretty easy to run some tests in a population that is already seeing widespread infection rates. Just that can cut years off a normal clinical trial timeline.

I personally don't think the vaccine itself is really all that effective in preventing overall numbers of people actually getting and spreading Covid, but it's effective enough to make a difference in severity of symptoms.

I think of it more like the flu shots that they've been giving out for a decade or more. My wife gets a flu shot every year, and still catches the flu every year (elementary teacher), but the assumption is that her flu symptoms are much less severe than if she had not got the shot (she's usually mildly sickly for about 2-3 days, then she goes to the Dr, they test her, "Yep it's flu" and send her home)

The difference in the numbers that I've seen (and have been told to me by people who work directly in hospitals), are:
People that have been vaccinated but are still getting hospitalized are people that would have a high chance of being hospitalized any other time from a cold or flue (old, chronic illness, etc),
BUT the people that you wouldn't normally expect to be hospitalized (under 50 and otherwise healthy) have not be vaccinated.
Of course, there are always outliers in any data set.

 

[baldduck74]

I just got back to work 2 weeks ago from having covid, had 2 days I had a headache and temperature, I made myself keep moving and not lay around I will not be getting the shot.
After my positive test, had to have a negative test to return to work. Next test was positive, so I asked the nurse, so I've had to positive test, will the state count that as 1 or 2 cases. She said most likely 2

 

[TBItoy]

One guy I work with tested positive multiple times over 3 months (had to get tested for multiple reasons over the course of those months) and they told him "A positive test, is a positive case", apparently there wasn't really any way to submit the data as it being the same person being re-tested? Not sure how true that is, but it wouldn't surprise me at all. Even better, he was 100% asymptomatic. Not so much as a sniffle for the entire time he tested positive...

 

[clutchee]

Brother in law was same way, tested positive for months and was kept off work, finally had to get doctors and HR involved to go back to work full time.

 

[baldduck74]

Don't get me wrong I was sick for the first 2 days, I'm 47 and have emphysema. I'm one of the people that believes it's more about control than anything.

 

[baldduck74]

I'll go down that rabbit hole of, think about all those Vacs, you had to have as a kid, you didn't have a choice. But your parents did, bless every parent on this earth. Not blaming any parent, thats for sure.

 

[MidMo]

The whole deal confuses me, if the vaccine is the answer then how are unvaccinated people the problem? The vaccine is supposed to keep you from becoming deathly ill if contracting the virus. Shouldn’t the people at the highest risk be the unvaccinated and isn’t their prerogative to have that choice? That’s what this country is founded on, freedom, freedom the make your own life choices and live free. It’s incredible that they want to mandate that all the tax paying citizens have to get vaccinated or else you won’t be able to carry on your life like you have and risk losing your livelihood but if you come from the poorest of poor countries and show up at the southern border, have not been vaccinated for COVID-19 let alone have any other vaccinations to speak of then **** come on in.

 

[MidMo]

I'll go down that rabbit hole of, think about all those Vacs, you had to have as a kid, you didn't have a choice. But your parents did, bless every parent on this earth. Not blaming any parent, thats for sure.

While I agree to some extent, ya gotta remember polio permanently crippled like 1 out of 100 kids, while it breaks my heart that any child dies in the dawn of life, under 400 children under 17 have passed since the virus started. I’m sure if you looked at each case on an individual base I’m sure there were co morbidities. My problem is that their is no long term studies of adverse affects of the vaccines, children by and large do not run the risk of losing their life to this ailment. If parents wanna get the their kids the shot then great, that’s their choice. I just feel like it’s just another instance of big government overreach.

 

[MidMo]

Edit: I fat fingered that last post, I meant to type 1 out of a 1000, forgot a 0

 

[SkinnyPedalRacing]

The interesting part, you cannot have a vaccine for a virus which has been stated by the CDC in the past before covid. From my latest understanding the only FDA approved vaccine is not available in the US, unless it has reticently become available (Pfize BioNTech is the only FDA approved vaccine). Cox postulate also has not been successfully established for this virus.

 

[Zjman]

I wish I had a dollar for every “my friends aunt” my coworkers cousin” “I heard a buddy”. Story ive heard since Covid started. If not for the internet I’d guess about 3/4 country be vaccinated by now and we would have a better control of this

I had Covid and it sucked balls. I know two people in the last 2 weeks that died from Covid. My neighbors have it now. Two of em are in the hospital and one is in icu.
Some people think because their case was mild they think everyone’s case is same way. It effects everyone differently

What most people have no clue of is how taxed our healthcare industry is right now, 2 months ago my woman had major back surgery and spent 8 days in a major trauma hospital in Columbus Ohio. She spent 8 hours in recovery because they never had a bed for her, she was supposed be in icu for 24 hours but no bed was available and had to go to a normal room with less care, I asked a million questions and the most answers were they were under staffed and hospital was over booked. They were working the nurses to death, my woman’s daughter had to stay with her to make sure she had proper care. They can’t get anybody to clean rooms or deliver meals. Pretty sad situation.

 

[Trailabite]

I wish I had a dollar for every “my friends aunt” my coworkers cousin” “I heard a buddy”. Story ive heard since Covid started. If not for the internet I’d guess about 3/4 country be vaccinated by now and we would have a better control of this

I had Covid and it sucked balls. I know two people in the last 2 weeks that died from Covid. My neighbors have it now. Two of em are in the hospital and one is in icu.
Some people think because their case was mild they think everyone’s case is same way. It effects everyone differently

What most people have no clue of is how taxed our healthcare industry is right now, 2 months ago my woman had major back surgery and spent 8 days in a major trauma hospital in Columbus Ohio. She spent 8 hours in recovery because they never had a bed for her, she was supposed be in icu for 24 hours but no bed was available and had to go to a normal room with less care, I asked a million questions and the most answers were they were under staffed and hospital was over booked. They were working the nurses to death, my woman’s daughter had to stay with her to make sure she had proper care. They can’t get anybody to clean rooms or deliver meals. Pretty sad situation.

Similar situation with the hospitals in Clarksville TN.

 

[Lil ugly]

View attachment 155364

I had to read that three times before I got it. I support it as well.

 

[xjmarc]

A lot of sites I work at are requiring it or they'll find another company to do the work, mostly health care. So far this I've lost family members and several friends and coworkers to it and my 3 year old nephew and brother both spent time in the hospital, brother stayed on oxygen a month after he came home. I got it because of work sites and travel, I'll be out of the country next month. No side affects for me, can't even get a magnet to stick to my arm like on fb. I did my research as best I could since there is so much info for both sides and decided it was worth the risk for me. It was the same when the polio vaccine came out in my parents/grandparents generation except they didn't have social media to fill their heads with info on pros and cons they were told they were getting it and weren't given a choice so at least we have a choice even if it means loosing employment. My employer has said they won't require it but a lot of our sites do so basically if you want to work you'll end up getting it.

 

[xjmarc]

I wish I had a dollar for every “my friends aunt” my coworkers cousin” “I heard a buddy”. Story ive heard since Covid started. If not for the internet I’d guess about 3/4 country be vaccinated by now and we would have a better control of this

I had Covid and it sucked balls. I know two people in the last 2 weeks that died from Covid. My neighbors have it now. Two of em are in the hospital and one is in icu.
Some people think because their case was mild they think everyone’s case is same way. It effects everyone differently

What most people have no clue of is how taxed our healthcare industry is right now, 2 months ago my woman had major back surgery and spent 8 days in a major trauma hospital in Columbus Ohio. She spent 8 hours in recovery because they never had a bed for her, she was supposed be in icu for 24 hours but no bed was available and had to go to a normal room with less care, I asked a million questions and the most answers were they were under staffed and hospital was over booked. They were working the nurses to death, my woman’s daughter had to stay with her to make sure she had proper care. They can’t get anybody to clean rooms or deliver meals. Pretty sad situation.

My brother in Arkansas called an ambulance because he was so weak he could barely walk. They told him to stay home as there are no beds at the hospital and he'd end up spending 4-5 hours before anyone even saw him. He made it 2 more days before he was in the ICU, fast forward 3 weeks and he finally got to get off all the machines and come home, with oxygen. Had he been taken the first time I think he would have spent much less time. Luckily he wasn't intubated only had a bipap forcing O2. A friends mom was intubated and spent a good 2 months in the hospital and rehab. When she went back to her doctor for a check up he told her she was the only one he'd intubated that was still alive.

 

[jeeptj99]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vaccine-mandate-covering-84-million-workers-124503548.html

well ****

 

[Trailabite]

Here's the actual mandate:

​ ​ AGC Update on Mandatory Vaccines

Today the Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) released its COVID-19 vaccine requirements for employers that have a total of at least 100 employees firm or corporate-wide at any time. The release of the Emergency Temporary Standard (ETS) comes approximately two months after President Joe Biden announced a sweeping set of COVID-19 vaccine mandates and requirements for both Federal employees and private employers. Its important to note that while the Federal ETS technically goes into immediate effect, California is governed by its own regulatory board: the California Occupational Safety and Health Administration (Cal/OSHA) that must now formally adopt the Federal ETS. As a result, with the release of the Federal ETS, Cal/OSHA now has approximately 30 days to formally adopt the Federal ETS in its current released form or adopt more stringent vaccine standards in addition to the Federal ETS. Only upon formal adoption by the Cal/OSHA Board does the Federal ETS go into effect in California. Who is covered? Employers that have a total of at least 100 employees firm or corporate-wide at any time. Exclusions Federal OSHA ETS does not apply to workplaces covered under the Safer Federal Workforce Task Force COVID-19 Workplace Safety: Guidance for Federal Contractors and Subcontractors. The ETS does not apply to employees who do not report to a workplace where other individuals such as coworkers or customers are present, employees while they are working from home, or employees who work exclusively outdoors. Effective Dates The ETS is effective immediately upon publication in Federal Register. To comply, employers must ensure provisions are addressed in the workplace by the following dates: 30 days after publication: All requirements other than testing for employees who have not completed their entire primary vaccination dose(s) 60 days after publication: Testing for employees who have not received all doses required for a primary vaccination Testing provisions for employees who are not vaccinated The ETS requires employers to ensure that each employee, who is not fully vaccinated, is tested for COVID-19 at least weekly (if in the workplace at least once a week) or within 7 days before returning to work (if away from the workplace for a week or longer). The ETS does not require employers to pay for any costs associated with testing. However, employer payment for testing may be required by other laws, regulations, or collective bargaining agreements or other collectively negotiated agreements. In addition, nothing prohibits employers from voluntarily assuming the costs associated with testing. Employer support for employee vaccination ETS requires employers to support vaccination by providing employees reasonable time, including up to four hours of paid time, to receive each vaccination dose, and reasonable time and paid sick leave to recover from side effects experienced following each dose Streamlining Implementation and Setting One Compliance Deadline Across Different Vaccination Requirements: January 4, 2022 The rules released today ensure employers know which requirements apply to which workplaces. Federal contractors may have some workplaces subject to requirements for federal contractors and other workplaces subject to the newly-released COVID-19 Vaccination and Testing ETS. To make it easy for all employers to comply with the requirements, the deadline for the federal contractor vaccination requirement will be aligned with those for the CMS rule and the ETS. Employees falling under the ETS, CMS, or federal contractor rules will need to have their final vaccination dose – either their second dose of Pfizer or Moderna, or single dose of Johnson & Johnson – by January 4, 2022. This will make it easier for employers to ensure their workforce is vaccinated, safe, and healthy, and ensure that federal contractors implement their requirements on the same timeline as other employers in their industries. And, the newly-released ETS will not be applied to workplaces subject to the federal contractor requirement or CMS rule, so employers will not have to track multiple vaccination requirements for the same employees. This morning, Thursday, November 4, from 10-10:45 a.m. PDT (1-1:45 p.m. EDT), the Department of Labor (DOL) will hold a briefing with senior DOL, OSHA, and administration officials to provide an overview of the ETS, including guidance around implementation and answers to key questions. Attendees are encouraged to review the fact sheet and information from OSHA ahead of the briefing and submit questions using the RSVP link below. Time: Thursday, November 4 from 10-10:45 a.m. PDT (1-1:45 p.m. EDT) RSVP: Register here. As Cal/OSHA moves forward with incorporating these federal regulations into a Cal/OSHA-specific ETS regulation, we will keep you apprised of any updates, changes, and announcements. Furthermore, in the days to come, we will be releasing a full summary and analysis of the Federal vaccine ETS along with useful resource documents. Additionally, AGC-CA will be scheduling a webinar for members offering a more in-depth analysis of the Federal ETS and guidance on how to proceed with compliance in the upcoming weeks. Lastly, AGC of California has been in frequent communication with AGC of America (AGC-A). AGC-A has engaged outside legal counsel in order to provide a legal memorandum that identifies the standards that OSHA must meet to justify using the Federal ETS process instead of the normal administrative procedures that are typically employed. Now that the Federal ETS on vaccinations has been released, AGC-A will be measuring it against the legal memorandum to determine whether a court challenge is warranted and evaluate the chances for success. Additionally, several Republican U.S. Senators have announced they will use the Congressional Review Act (CRA) to challenge Federal OSHA's ETS; however, obtaining the necessary votes to "disapprove" the ETS seems unlikely as Democrats remain the majority in both the Senate and House of Representatives. Any questions or concerns regarding Cal/OSHA and vaccine mandates across the state, please contact Brian Mello, Safety Manager, at (603) 770-9264 or [email protected].