Never ending Samurai build...

[clemsonjeep]

This single CV is a big step up...especially with the turbo. Ive driven it a few times with the turbo disconnected and it still feels stronger than the stock TBI setup.

The individual carbs are great...biggest improvement is getting rid of the stock intake manifold which has always been a huge limiter for the 1.3 & 1.6 motors.

My motor was a CL find. No idea how many miles.

 

[jta]

Why stick with the carbs? I have a pair of Weber side drafts on my tin tip. It was a nice improvement over the stock 1.3 carb but it think I'd rather have efi.

 

[clemsonjeep]

The TBI wasn't tunable. I'm not interested in playing with or investing in megasquirt style systems either.

 

[clemsonjeep]

Got to get it out on some trails today. Overall it worked really well, but I've got an issue with flooding on very steep inclines at low throttle. I'm thinking this is a float adjustment issue, but won't really know until I take it out again. I didn't want to take it apart while I was on the trail today...too much fun. Power is better, responsiveness is better, just flooding.

Ryan on 3D 6-25-16

 

[clemsonjeep]

Well I've put it off long enough and I probably would have kept putting it off, but I sold my hydro assist a few weeks ago and I refuse to install the full hydro with the leafs...so here we go.

Feel free to comment on my setup. What I'm shooting for is a stable rock crawler...no go fast (it won't go fast...ha) and it doesn't drive on the street. With that in mind my target AD was close to or above 100%. I really want the front to stay in place...not lift a lot on climbs. I'll be running 14" air shocks just like on the rear. I will have the winch set up for a suck down, but I do not want to use it as a constant band aid. I also didn't want to go too high with the AD to keep the front end from being too stiff as it meets ledges and such under power. Here's what I came up with based on measurements...

 

[Stuntman Autoworks]

Uppers are too short. That's going to be alot of pinion angle change in the wrong directon as it droops.

 

[clemsonjeep]

Uppers are too short. That's going to be alot of pinion angle change in the wrong directon as it droops.

You make the second person to say that. I ran the numbers through the travel calc and it said at full droop it would have 7* change in pinion angle.

I'll take another look at it and see about making lowers shorter and see what that does.

 

[TBItoy]

Re:

Your uppers are triangulated enough that you're not going to get massive pinion angle change when flexing. If you were jumping and fully drooping out the front suspension I'd be concerned. The suck down winch will keep it from dropping when climbing.

 

[Stuntman Autoworks]

You make the second person to say that. I ran the numbers through the travel calc and it said at full droop it would have 7* change in pinion angle.

I'll take another look at it and see about making lowers shorter and see what that does.

7 degrees is alot of change especially when you take in account that the angles on your u joints will already be getting greater because the axle is drooping, then add the 7 degrees from the link geometry and it could make a big difference.

 

[Stuntman Autoworks]

Re:

Your uppers are triangulated enough that you're not going to get massive pinion angle change when flexing. If you were jumping and fully drooping out the front suspension I'd be concerned. The suck down winch will keep it from dropping when climbing.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but just because they are triangulated won't keep the pinion from changing. Triangulated or not shorter uppers=pinion rotating down.

He also doesn't want to use the suck down at all times, probably like me he wants it as an option but not a necessity at all times.

 

[clemsonjeep]

Ok so here's the deal. Sure...if I have the front shocks set up with 5" of shaft showing I'll have 9" of droop. With 9" droop the pinion angle will change -6* or a little more. Since I'm using a high pinion diff my front driveshaft is damn near level at ride heigh...so I'm not too worried about the change. What I do like about keeping the numbers close to what I have above is that the AD and most everything else remains very stable.

Obviously there aren't any hard and fast numbers you can rely on, but I've always understood that in the front the general rule of thumb for the uppers was for them to be approx. 70% of the lowers in order to maintain consistent caster and such. I took some more accurate measurements this morning since I have a lower link mount tacked to the frame and both axle lower mounts tacked to the axle. I also have a better idea what I'm doing for the upper link frame mounts. So with the numbers I have now it looks like my uppers will actually be approx. 82% of the lowers. AD has changed to 88% which should

Nick...what's your opinion on front AD numbers for a crawler like mine?

Ride Height

Full Droop

Bump

 

[clemsonjeep]

I'm liking that it increases at full droop...should encourage it to settle out if that's ever an issue. This thing should NEVER be at full droop...if it is I think I took a wrong turn off an access road for the quick way down the mountain...and then I've got other issues.

 

[Rokcrler]

Re:

watch out for driveshaft contact at the HP yoke to the upper link.

 

[clemsonjeep]

watch out for driveshaft contact at the HP yoke to the upper link.

Thanks...will do

 

[Rokcrler]

This hits at full pass stuff full driver drop. Adding air bumps before coil bind

 

[clemsonjeep]

Did you run the calc on that? Just curious of lengths and mounting points...the calc is just an easy way to show what's going on.

 

[Stuntman Autoworks]

Idk where you got the 70% of length rule but for as long of a travel as our suspensions have I wouldn't want the uppers to be any less than equal length with the lowers if possible. That way the pinion angle and caster all stays the same through travel. Since I use a double cardan front shaft I actually want my pinion to continue pointing to the tcase so my uppers are a little longer to keep the difference in pinion angles to a minimum through the travel.

 

[clemsonjeep]

Idk where you got the 70% of length rule but for as long of a travel as our suspensions have I wouldn't want the uppers to be any less than equal length with the lowers if possible. That way the pinion angle and caster all stays the same through travel. Since I use a double cardan front shaft I actually want my pinion to continue pointing to the tcase so my uppers are a little longer to keep the difference in pinion angles to a minimum through the travel.

If the pinion continues to point at the tcase...that would mean your caster is changing...

I'm running a non CV front driveshaft.

As Rokcrler pointed out...contact between driveshaft and upper link is going to be a concern with the high pinion diff. With the pinion rotating down...caster staying close to the same...this should help keep the driveshaft out of the link too.

I'm liking what Rokcrler did with the upper link mount at the frame too...definitely easier than what I was planning to do to get them mounted outside the frame rail.

 

[Stuntman Autoworks]

Also another thing to consider is your running air shocks and they like to unload more than coils so you may want more front anti squat, (pro dive) as the axle droops, to help the suspension try to pull the body back to ride height when on a hill. I know you've already said that but it may be worth looking into more than you were thinking of or maybe just another thought to add while your looking at everything.

 

[Stuntman Autoworks]

If the pinion continues to point at the tcase...that would mean your caster is changing...

Yes I know that. That's why I said if they were equal length then the pinion and caster would stay the same, but I'm longer on top so mine doesnt.

I think your overlooking that the driveshaft angles are already going to be greater as the axle droops but if your pinion rotates down also then your driveshaft angles at both ends won't be changing at the same rate. The axle end will get more angle faster than the tcase end.

 

[clemsonjeep]

Yes I know that. That's why I said if they were equal length then the pinion and caster would stay the same, but I'm longer on top so mine doesnt.

Separation at the frame/chassis will have more effect on pinion angle change than link length in our cases. If we were trying to build something with 40" lowers and 20" uppers then we'd really be screwed.

I think your overlooking that the driveshaft angles are already going to be greater as the axle droops but if your pinion rotates down also then your driveshaft angles at both ends won't be changing at the same rate. The axle end will get more angle faster than the tcase end.

I get that, but this would only be a big deal if I planned to be at full droop a lot. Like I said earlier...I don't want to use the suck down as a band aid, but when I'm dropping off a ledge or getting high centered then I wouldn't have an issue sucking it in if it became necessary. I just don't want to ride around with it sucked down all the time because its constantly unloading.

 

[Rokcrler]

Re: Re: Never ending Samurai build...

Did you run the calc on that? Just curious of lengths and mounting points...the calc is just an easy way to show what's going on.

Graph paper, compass, ruler.
This stop I works awesome. It had a LP 3rd during build, only after the HP was installed did the yoke hit.
Also running a 2pc shaft due to auto trans

 

[sleepsontoilet]

My uppers are shorter, way shorter. It shouldn't work, but it flat out crawls everything you have the balls to point it at. I copied onetoncrawler to a T with every measurement he had. I wouldn't change a thing, not even the air shocks. I don't unload any more than the coilover or ORI rigs I wheel with. They are full of oil with about 150# in them and plenty stable with no sway bar. I also only run 5" of shaft showing. Maybe I got lucky, but I'm running the numbers I copied from onetoncrawler who copied them from a couple other builds. I've had it up to 75mph and it feels great.

Front uppers 21.25"
Front lowers 29.5"
Rear uppers 37.5"
Rear lowers 40"
Wheelbase is 109"
Belly is 17.25"
4" of shaft showing on 14" 2.0 fox air shocks

 

[clemsonjeep]

I like it...and I liked onetoncrawlers setup when he built it.

Thanks for posting!

 

[sleepsontoilet]

I like it...and I liked onetoncrawlers setup when he built it.

Thanks for posting!

His numbers

Front uppers 21.25"
Lowers 29.5"

 

[clemsonjeep]

What kind of separation numbers are you running at chassis and axle?

 

[karatejosh]

Re:

Be really careful with your ideas here mine was way off and it has been such a headake to fix after the fact just mine was good but it its so light when 2 people get in it it drops about 2 inches wich messes everything up

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[sleepsontoilet]

What kind of separation numbers are you running at chassis and axle?

4.5" frame
8" axle

 

[clemsonjeep]

4.5" frame
8" axle

That's almost exactly what I'm aiming for. Hoping to wrap it up this weekend.

 

[clemsonjeep]

Its linked...just gotta brace everything up and finish welding.