Propane High HP Question

[bigredkacy]

So after running my rig a few months, i think i might be getting less HP then when i dyno'ed the engine on gas..
The build is a Full roller, Loppy Cam, 521 Stroker.

I get into some deep mud and it just bogs down, like it is starving of something.
It does awesome on the rocks, trail, and just when its under a heavy load its a small issue.

I have dual impco 125s, with dual mixers, with a single vacuum lockoff.

I have a single 4" long K&N Filter thorugh a dual intake pipe
Would this produce enough air flow for the big block?
Should I be running 2 filters like this?

Is the single vacuum lockoff sufficient enough for the demand of fuel for the 521 stroker?

 

[jewylewy1]

Is that a single high flow lock off I know I'm running a high flow electric on my high horsepower 350 chevy

 

[bigredkacy]

This is the lockoff i am running.

I guess i found my own answer for the lockoff..


"The IMPCO VFF30 is a combination fuel lock off and filter engineered for use with LPG or natural gas. A pressure of 1.69 kPa (0.5" Hg) is required to open the lock off. The VFF30 is suitable for engines up to 242 kW (325 hp) at a maximum working pressure of 2,150 kPa (312 psi). The filter element is fully serviceable."
Source:http://www.propanecarbs.com/examples.html

Is anyone running this lockoff with dual mixers and over 600+ hp?

 

[greenlion]

I assume you mean two 425 mixers?
I ran a 600+HP BBC off two 425's and one vacuum lockoff same as the one you are using with no problems.
One 4" filter does not sound large enough; try it without the filter.
I had a dual quad intake which used a larger oval filter that fit over both mixers.

 

[muddinmetal]

I assume you mean two 425 mixers?
I ran a 600+HP BBC off two 425's and one vacuum lockoff same as the one you are using with no problems.
One 4" filter does not sound large enough; try it without the filter.
I had a dual quad intake which used a larger oval filter that fit over both mixers.

One long 4" cone k&n filter will support 1200hp :****:

 

[bigredkacy]

How about the model E regulators , does it matter how they are positioned?

I have one upside down and stacked.

 

[Bubba1]

I would not even use the lockout.

And I'm not sure if it helps but I would use two baseplates. Looks like only one would be used in the setup of the first picture.

 

[mrdrinksalil]

I dont know **** but your supply of propane through one lockout which has like 1/4NPT inlet and outlet can't be enough. I know propane is under higher pressure but seems like thats too small of a hole to support a 521stroker. Someone tell me if I'm wrong.

 

[InittowiniT]

You need to call this guy will answer your question over the phone!!!Buddy Gamel
Precision Sales & Service, Inc.
451 64th Place South
Birmingham, Ala. 35212

877-403-7827
205-591-2267, fax

[email protected]
[email protected]
www.alternatefuel.com
www.workhorseservice.com

 

[greenlion]

One long 4" cone k&n filter will support 1200hp :****:

Wow then on the long 4" k&n!

Otherwise that is how mine was set up lock off/ regulators wise. I did have them on a dual quad intake with two separate 4150 baseplates.
You could try it without the regulator. And could try two tanks, one to each evaporator and see.

 

[Pumpkin]

You need to call this guy will answer your question over the phone!!!Buddy Gamel
Precision Sales & Service, Inc.
451 64th Place South
Birmingham, Ala. 35212

877-403-7827
205-591-2267, fax

[email protected]
[email protected]
www.alternatefuel.com
www.workhorseservice.com

X2 call Buddy, parts and customer service are top notch. I ordered rebuild parts from him for a used system I got from a friend, then he stayed on the phone with me for over an hour working out a problem I had because I failed to read the insturtion completly

 

[billstoy]

Did you dyno on pump gas or race fuel? just checking . propane needs alot of timing . Impco recomends 18 initial 18 vacume 18 mechanical .

 

[Pumpkin]

Re: Re: Re: Propane High HP Question

Did you dyno on pump gas or race fuel? just checking . propane needs alot of timing . Impco recomends 18 initial 18 vacume 18 mechanical .

buddy says 30 max

 

[Naughty_Finger]

Maybe I can be of help. I was torn between efi and propane. Kept hearing that propane can support x horsepower.. I believe it was 350 on a single carb .. Well I built a Mopar 400 and ran propane on it. I purchased my propane kit from gotpropane.com. when I dyno' the motor it was a dog. 320 horse and 410 torque. I messed with the timing and that was the best. When I ran it on gas it was 415 HP... The problem is that the propane carb is only 425 cfm. Its not the amount of fuel, its the lack of air that choke the motor. Even with a duel carb setup it was still wasn't much better. Propane is great for smaller engines but if you go over 300hp don't go propane. I am not an expert but one of my clients is. In fact he is the only guy in nhra that drag races a propane fueled car. To get power with propane you need multiple carbs, multiple evaporators, remove a black restrictor from the carbs, and have two bottles because it sucks gas. If you want to ask him questions his name is Richard. Information is free. His website is propane carbs dot com. As far as timing goes, its not total timing that matters so much as the advance curve. Propane likes all in really early. Hope that helps.

I sold my propane setup and put a fast efi on my truck. Huge noticeable difference.

 

[REVELATION]

I know a man in Chattanooga that is running 750hp on one mixer. I will get his name and contact number for you. You have to run high timing and the more compression the better. My new Second Chance rig is running 525hp with 12:1 compression at 29 degrees of timing with no trouble at all.


God Bless




Revelation Fab

 

[Naughty_Finger]

I am not going to doubt you but I would like to ask how.. I know the 12:1 compression has a lot to do with it because with that compression you are not relying on flow. I had the system for a year and my low end was awesome.. very very sensitive.. it would jump just blowing on the gas pedal. I tried EVERYTHING.. I even installed an o2 sensor and a air fuel mixture gauge to make sure it was tuned perfectly. Since my dizzy was an msd I went through multiple spring combinations to find the best one. On the dyno ( I still have the dyno sheets hanging up in my garage ) it showed that at higher rpm ( over 4200 ) the engine was screaming for air. It just could not get enough air. The same exact engine.. nothing changed except timing and the carb and I had a 100Hp increase. Real numbers on the dyno. I own a web development company and one of my clients is one of the single biggest propane guys in the country. I live in MN and the guy that gotpropane buys his stuff from ( Carburation and Turbo ) is located an hour away. I talked extensively with both of them and even took my engine to the carburation and turbo guys to tune for me. The end result from their mouth was it's not possible to get that horsepower out of a single 425 carb. Higher RPM needs more air it's just physics. A 425 carb only flows in real number about 416 cfm.

Propane has more octane.. that is why you can run more compression BUT propane has lower BTUs which means less energy. Loss of hp...

Also, watch out for the Gemini brand evaporators. My got propane kit came with them instead of the real impco brand. Gemini is made is china and mine was pitted all around the fitting area so it leaked. I ended up buying a impco one from carburation and turbo.

I am not trying to argue or disprove anyone. I am however trying to real real information on here so people don't make the mistakes I did. I believed all the postings on all the boards about how propane is the second coming of jesus, how your vehicle can run upside down ( it can but you have no oil pressure ), how it starts right up ( it does BUT it will also flood if you don't have a VERY strong spark ), poor man's fuel injection ( true it's cheaper but not by much. When all was said and done I would have been better off just putting in the FAST system )

Before you go propane do yourself a favor and just research. I know someone with a big block FORD that claims over 500 HP with a single carb. He was part of the reason I went propane. Truth is that engine was never dyno'd so he don't know. Engine is strong but like mine it was a dog at higher RPM..

try http://www.propanecarbs.com for information. I do not work for him, he was a client and I built his website but that is where it ends. I get no kick backs etc.. he will tell you the truth. Also check out http://www.alternatefuelsracing.com which is a site my company did NOT build but it will give you more real information about hp and propane. This car below is one of his cars.. As you can see.. not just one 425 carb on it.

To all those that use propane and love it, I mean you no disrespect. It's not for everyone. Wasn't for me or my engine. Different strokes for different folks

 

[Elliott]

I know a man in Chattanooga that is running 750hp on one mixer. I will get his name and contact number for you. You have to run high timing and the more compression the better. My new Second Chance rig is running 525hp with 12:1 compression at 29 degrees of timing with no trouble at all.


God Bless



Has this hp been proven on a dyno or just seat of the pants.


Revelation Fab

 

[REVELATION]

I would say both he is running 1/4 mile with it I will get details so I dont tell you wrong.



God Bless





Revelation Fab

 

[REVELATION]

Bearnard Burns around Athens TN is the one making the horse power he runs them on rail buggies with twin turbo and with out turbo. If anyone interested to see my 406 running you can pull up you tube videos by putting in yellow buggy it was a yellow single seat with purple wheels. I guess there will always be a discussion between propane and fuel kinda like ford and chevy.




God Bless




Revelation Fab

 

[Rockwells607]

I run a single 425 on my buggy, I had a dirt mod 358 in it and anyone that ever saw it run knows it made way more than 350 hp, I have a new 383 in it now and havent got it dialed in just yet but have no fuel worries, Brandon Dillon has a healthy ford 460 with single 425 and I don't think anyone will argue that's bumping more than 350 hp with no issues, we have had this conversation several times on here, charts and graphs may suggest one thing but real world : test and tune till you find what works with your combination