LWB Samurai Joe
Well-Known Member
Looks like you guys had a great time. :awesomework:
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Help Support Hardline Crawlers :
Snowed All Day!!!!!
- Thread starter zukkev
- Start date
Comet
Well-Known Member
Kat, that's not true. Not sure where you heard that. The only time I know that gate is open is for maintenance. The DNR did build the shoe fly to keep lesser built rigs out. Too many stockers were getting stuck up there.
It's been awhile since I've been up there, but the shoe fly looks a lot easier now. Might be the pics, but at first even a decent built rig had to really pic the right line or rub rails. Now it looks like a drive in the park.
gill41083
Well-Known Member
thats a good question, i have always known that it was ok to go around it, but i dont know how a new guy would be able to find out.:corn:
I'm pretty sure there are signs there now for lower mainline. Walker has enough trail signs that it is safe to say if there is no sign with the little jeep picture, then it's probably off limits to 4x4s. Also the sign at the main parking lot has lots of info, for those who read.
OK, but is there a sign at the gate(keeper) that says something like, "If you can't make it through here, go home!"
How would someone know, if they came across the gate in the pictures, that they were allowed to go around it, vs any other gate that they came across that they're not allowed to go around. Generally speaking if there's a gate and it's closed, that means closed.
zukkev
Cornfuzzled yet again...
:awesomework: See, this is the type of response I like...Now, I'm also not sure if there's a sign at the gatekeepr/shoefly, and I've left a message with Elise (DNR employee in charge of trail maintenance @ Walker) to give me a call...I'm sure I will get a call, and will post results of conversation. To my knowledge, this is the ONLY approved "gatekeeper" @ Walker Valley,(other than the Cavenaugh RD entrance, which is a bunch of Ecology blocks stacked up in such a way that only 2wheelers and most(not all!) quads can get thru- It would be nice if us 4x4 guys/gals could also use this entrance, because the main parking lot gets awfull crowded sometimes!!
AND YES, WE HAD A BLAST!!!!
AND YES, WE HAD A BLAST!!!!
gill41083
Well-Known Member
like some one said before, walker has plenty of signage, if it doesnt have a big huge sign that says trail closed then its generally open, folowing signage and using common sense usually keeps ya out of trouble! just curios gibby, if you never go to walker then why are you so worried about, im not tryin to piss ya off or be a ****, just wondering.
Well,I may want to someday...
Actually, since we're still working on a signage plan at Elbe, I was curious as to how they were handling this at other DNR ORV parks.
I spoke with Nancy today and she told me that we can make Gatekeepers just about anyway we want, as long as it will work. We're also working on completely redoing signage for the park right from the campground to new trail head signs, marking the trail corridors etc.
I am looking at this also as from a different perspective, what we ASSUME to be, is not always the way it is. People frequently assume that they can use a bypass because it's there. Well, that's not true. Some people may assume that because everyone goes around one gate, that they can go around all the gates, especially if they don't have intimate knowledge of that particular park. So I'm getting a little bit to the crux of the matter which is, how would someone know at that particular obstacle that they are or are not allowed to go around a gate which appears to close off a trail. If I drove up to that gate, I would consider that the road is closed and the people going around were doing so illegally. Or if I was told that it was OK to go around the gates, how would I know NOT to go around another gate that was supposed to be blocking off a road or trail.
All of this leads towards gathering information to make a good trail signage system so that someone doesn't come up to a gate and NOT know what they are or are not allowed to do.
You have to admit that if you just look at one of those pictures with a vehicle going around the gate, it looks like someone is going around a gate to a trail or road that is supposed to be closed. When we get a signage system at Elbe, I want to try to avoid the assumptions.
The assumption that unless the trail is marked closed that it's open, is not correct. Each trail has a specific trail corridor and each DNR ORV park has a specific amount of trail mileage that it's allowed to have. The opposite is generally true, closed unless marked open. Otherwise illegal trails would be considered trails just because someone hasn't marked them closed?
I would love to see the ORV parks run under the assumption of open unless marked closed, but that's not the way the cookie crumbles.
Actually, since we're still working on a signage plan at Elbe, I was curious as to how they were handling this at other DNR ORV parks.
I spoke with Nancy today and she told me that we can make Gatekeepers just about anyway we want, as long as it will work. We're also working on completely redoing signage for the park right from the campground to new trail head signs, marking the trail corridors etc.
I am looking at this also as from a different perspective, what we ASSUME to be, is not always the way it is. People frequently assume that they can use a bypass because it's there. Well, that's not true. Some people may assume that because everyone goes around one gate, that they can go around all the gates, especially if they don't have intimate knowledge of that particular park. So I'm getting a little bit to the crux of the matter which is, how would someone know at that particular obstacle that they are or are not allowed to go around a gate which appears to close off a trail. If I drove up to that gate, I would consider that the road is closed and the people going around were doing so illegally. Or if I was told that it was OK to go around the gates, how would I know NOT to go around another gate that was supposed to be blocking off a road or trail.
All of this leads towards gathering information to make a good trail signage system so that someone doesn't come up to a gate and NOT know what they are or are not allowed to do.
You have to admit that if you just look at one of those pictures with a vehicle going around the gate, it looks like someone is going around a gate to a trail or road that is supposed to be closed. When we get a signage system at Elbe, I want to try to avoid the assumptions.
The assumption that unless the trail is marked closed that it's open, is not correct. Each trail has a specific trail corridor and each DNR ORV park has a specific amount of trail mileage that it's allowed to have. The opposite is generally true, closed unless marked open. Otherwise illegal trails would be considered trails just because someone hasn't marked them closed?
I would love to see the ORV parks run under the assumption of open unless marked closed, but that's not the way the cookie crumbles.
Duck Dodgers
Well-Known Member
In my travels of the back country ( what is still open) in pursuit of the ever elusive big trout caught with the perfect fly on a perfect day, I have seen a lot of closed gates as probably most of you have. The one common denominator is that they are situated in such a fashion that no one can get through, around or otherwise. I saw one that had an additional pipe welded onto the stand pipe which was embedded into a bank on the side of the gate. No way to get through. Looking at these pics it would seem that if DNR did not want anyone to bypass the gate they could make it so. IMHO
Has anyone called DNR or emailed someone there?
Has anyone called DNR or emailed someone there?
zukkev
Cornfuzzled yet again...
well said,Gibby. Like I said, I've got a call into Alise; The idea of signage at Walker's gatekeeper has been discussed actually; the local E&E officer is usually there from daylight to near dusk, and she frequents the various roads throughout the park;often not more than a ph call away-I appreciate everyone's concern for the legality of said bypass:awesomework:
Now that you mention it, other gates in Walker DO have some means to deter illegal bypasses-like I said before, I'll post results once I've spoken W/ alise...Thanks Again!More pics coming soon!
Now that you mention it, other gates in Walker DO have some means to deter illegal bypasses-like I said before, I'll post results once I've spoken W/ alise...Thanks Again!More pics coming soon!
MT894runner
Well-Known Member
Dude who owns the HUGE subaru brat. I know theres not much left on that thing thats subaru. I want the stats on that rig please!!!
zukkev
Cornfuzzled yet again...
You can go to our site and click on "Jayson"; that'll give you what you're after....:awesomework:
zukkev
Cornfuzzled yet again...
Just spoke w/ Alise.....
Alise just phoned me, there is currently no sign at the shoefly...there will be one now! She said that there is a sign at parking lot stating the Lower Mainline trailhead is there, but assumed that everyone frequenting Walker knew the shoefly is legit.....She's gonna get in touch w/ Nancy regarding making "gatekeeper" signs uniform,so when signage is up, people will recognize them,no matter which park they're in!!! Thanks for the insight Gibby:awesomework: ; hope your sign project goes really well....
Alise just phoned me, there is currently no sign at the shoefly...there will be one now! She said that there is a sign at parking lot stating the Lower Mainline trailhead is there, but assumed that everyone frequenting Walker knew the shoefly is legit.....She's gonna get in touch w/ Nancy regarding making "gatekeeper" signs uniform,so when signage is up, people will recognize them,no matter which park they're in!!! Thanks for the insight Gibby:awesomework: ; hope your sign project goes really well....
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Comet
Well-Known Member
Thanks Zukkev, yes a sign on the gate itself is a wonderful idea. Not sure why they didn't do that in the first place. I know the sign in the main lot talks about it though.
zukkev
Cornfuzzled yet again...
No prob.... Gibby brought it to my attention-at least now there won't be any question there(as long as the sign remains intact!!!:eeek:
