Some battery info

[Gibby1]

Now I have only last piece to the puzzle. I have everything running from a "power terminal". I'm going to put a 3rd battery in the back to primarly run the air compressor. Currently I have a good size wire from the power terminal to the 80 fuse to the pump. I was going to disconnect the wire to the pump, connect it to the positive terminal of the 3rd battery, (ground the battery of course) and then connect the pump directly to the positive terminal on the battery. My concern is that when I run the winch I want it to primarily draw off the two main batteries, but I think this way it'll try to pull from all 3 batteries equally. No big deal BUT the wire going back to the rear battery is not capable of handling that kind of current.
So if I take the wire that runs to the back off the power terminal, where should I hook it up so that it still get's a charge from the alternator? The alternator currently is connected to the power terminal. I feel like I need to split the feed from the alternator and run a wire to the back and a wire to the postive terminal....

 

[PUO-BANNED]

Dang gibby 3 batts:eeek: A Isolator is what you need just wire it for 3 batts

 

[Not Jobless]

Wow, I must be blessed, I've had the same optima in my Jeep for about 12 years and never had a problem.

I even have two newer ones in the Dodge that have been great for the last 2 years.

Sounds to me like you folks with battery issues just don't know what your'e doing :corn:

 

[Pat]

Optima had a bad batch of batteries a while back and their quality is supposedly back up.

All my Optimas seem to last 8+ years no matter what type of vehicle.

I think Gibby needs 3 phase AC power for all the shop equipment on his rig. :fawkdancesmiley:

30kw should do the trick- http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=2826759

 

[Gibby1]

Optima had a bad batch of batteries a while back and their quality is supposedly back up.

All my Optimas seem to last 8+ years no matter what type of vehicle.

I think Gibby needs 3 phase AC power for all the shop equipment on his rig. :fawkdancesmiley:

30kw should do the trick- http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=2826759

Optima was bought out by Johnson Controls a while back. They started to private label these for several other companies and quality dropped dramatically. Apparently the Optima was still the top of the line of the spiral cell technology. The folks who originally designed the gel cell are the same folks who are now making the Oddysey.

The problems that I've had with the Optima are usage problems. The gel cell battery does better in a situation with continuous or frequent usage, otherwise it should be maintained with a trickle charger. It also doesn't do well with deep discharge and rapid recharges. They also tend to overheat under significant strain which shortens their life. I could probably run a DD on the Optimas that I sent back, but I don't want to count on them to haul my 6100lb rig out of the mud.

 

[Gibby1]

Compare some of the quick specs between the yellow top that I had and the Oddysey of the exact same size (not a larger battery).
Optima Oddysey
CCA 750 880
MCA 880 1050
Res Cap 120 135

Also from Optima's website.

Overcharging
can cause the safety valves to open and battery gases to escape, causing premature end of life.
These gases are flammable! You cannot replace water in sealed batteries that have been
overcharged. Any battery that becomes very hot while charging should be disconnected
immediately.

It could be that when overheated on charge or discharge that we're losing the gases causing the premature failure.

 

[MNboy]

Gibby, what you want for your third battery is not an isolator, but a relay. I'm a DC electrician by trade and know what I'm talking about, unlike a lot of the folks giving advice on the interweb. PM or email me so I can get an idea of your whole system and I can get you a specific part number for the relay.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with Optima batteries, and they are NOT a gel cell battery. There may have been a bad batch put out there, but anyone with the right equipment could test the battery in less than a minute and find out. Almost every battery issue come from a problem in the electrical system, not a problem with the battery.

 

[Gibby1]

Gibby, what you want for your third battery is not an isolator, but a relay. I'm a DC electrician by trade and know what I'm talking about, unlike a lot of the folks giving advice on the interweb. PM or email me so I can get an idea of your whole system and I can get you a specific part number for the relay.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with Optima batteries, and they are NOT a gel cell battery. There may have been a bad batch put out there, but anyone with the right equipment could test the battery in less than a minute and find out. Almost every battery issue come from a problem in the electrical system, not a problem with the battery.

The Optima batteries are not ideal for my situation because of the way that I use my vehicle. My 16.3v high charge on the PPW alternator will also fry these batteries.

 

[Digger 5]

Like others here I had great luck with early Opitmas but the later versions sucked.
I currently have Oddysey batteries in both Jeeps and have had them about 5 years. I've had them drained a couple of times due to leaving a light on between runs (a month or so) so they were down to nothing. They both have charged back up without issue with a 3 amp charger.

Spendy but better than any of the options.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

it has nothing to due with the "batch"

I worked in stereo shops when they first came out. They sucked them.

I bought many over the years just to find out it was a touchy little battery.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Gibby, what you want for your third battery is not an isolator, but a relay. I'm a DC electrician by trade and know what I'm talking about, unlike a lot of the folks giving advice on the interweb. PM or email me so I can get an idea of your whole system and I can get you a specific part number for the relay.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with Optima batteries, and they are NOT a gel cell battery. There may have been a bad batch put out there, but anyone with the right equipment could test the battery in less than a minute and find out. Almost every battery issue come from a problem in the electrical system, not a problem with the battery.

If you are a DC electrician then you should clearly understand the charging differences and the ability to train these batteries to not take a full charge.

The low internal resistance plays hell with charging systems and their ability to read these batteries.

Ever bust one open? I have, several. Its not water/acid. Its electrolytic gel.

I have scrapped more optimas than most have owned.

They are just like a cordless phone. If ya put it on the charger everytime you are done using it it will always have a crisp FULL charge.
If ya leave the phone by the TV all day and only charge it at night it will never maintain a FULL charge. Even if the second phone had been charged for two days straight it will not have the same capicity as the first one that always had good charging habbits.

Optimas are fine in a DD that gets charged regularly.

They do not like to sit for long periods like in a wheeler, street rod, boat, etc. These are the people the optima are marketed at the most too.:booo:

 

[MNboy]

If you are a DC electrician then you should clearly understand the charging differences and the ability to train these batteries to not take a full charge.

The low internal resistance plays hell with charging systems and their ability to read these batteries.

I do understand the differences, and it has nothing to do with "training" a battery, there is no such thing in this style battery. These work fine with a real charging system, but an automotive alternator with an internal regulator is about the crappiest "system" you can have.
I agree with you that these are a poor choice for many wheelers, but again it isn't because they are a bad battery, it's because they are not suitable for this particular application.

 

[Damnyankee]

If you are a DC electrician then you should clearly understand the charging differences and the ability to train these batteries to not take a full charge.

The low internal resistance plays hell with charging systems and their ability to read these batteries.

Ever bust one open? I have, several. Its not water/acid. Its electrolytic gel.

I have scrapped more optimas than most have owned.

They are just like a cordless phone. If ya put it on the charger everytime you are done using it it will always have a crisp FULL charge.
If ya leave the phone by the TV all day and only charge it at night it will never maintain a FULL charge. Even if the second phone had been charged for two days straight it will not have the same capicity as the first one that always had good charging habbits.

Optimas are fine in a DD that gets charged regularly.

They do not like to sit for long periods like in a wheeler, street rod, boat, etc. These are the people the optima are marketed at the most too.:booo:

hate to bust your bubble brad, but optimas are not gel cells.
http://truck.hownd.com/photo-1570-optima_batteries_yellowtop_battery.html :beer:

 

[CHOP SHOP]

hate to bust your bubble brad, but optimas are not gel cells.
http://truck.hownd.com/photo-1570-optima_batteries_yellowtop_battery.html :beer:

Thats odd. from optima UK besides the "gel" only refers to the acids form.

here ya go. http://www.optimabattery.co.uk/english_optima/faq.htm


14. What is a Gel Cell Battery?
A gel battery design is typically a modification of the standard lead acid automotive or marine battery. A gelling agent is added to the electrolyte to reduce movement inside the battery case. Many gel batteries also use one way valves in place of open vents, this helps the normal internal gasses to recombine back into water in the battery, reducing gassing.

15. How does a Gel Cell compare to your deep cycle?
Most gel batteries have a much higher internal resistance, meaning they will not be able to deliver and receive current as efficiently. This is especially apparent at higher amperage levels. For example, most gel batteries will not work successfully in engine starting applications.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

this is why gibby is unhappy with them.

Most gel batteries have a much higher internal resistance, meaning they will not be able to deliver and receive current as efficiently. This is especially apparent at higher amperage levels.

They are good batteries.

They are not good batteries however in the way we use them. (abusively)

 

[MNboy]

this is why gibby is unhappy with them.



They are good batteries.

They are not good batteries however in the way we use them. (abusively)

I would bet that Dale fried his batteries with the very high voltages his system runs at, it's a common issue with the PPW gear.
BTW you are quoting the wrong part of the FAQ on that site, they are actually pointing out that Optima batteries are NOT gel batteries and therefore don't suffer from the limitations of a gel. The Optima is a spiral wrapped AGM (absorbed glass mat) battery, there are some similarities to a gel battery but a bunch of very important differences. The Optima is in fact almost perfect for most of the uses we want them for in a wheeler, unfortunately they have very poor compatibility to the charging systems in most of our rigs.

 

[pokey]

This is a great thread :awesomework: I have a couple of questions. The jeep I am building now also has the PPW system on it. I also have 2 brand new yellow tops already mounted. Is there anything I can do to protect the batts from being over charged by the high output alt (160 amp) I also have a float charger hard wired into the jeep for when its parked between trips. Is this good or bad ?

 

[NotMatt]

The Optima is in fact almost perfect for most of the uses we want them for in a wheeler, unfortunately they have very poor compatibility to the charging systems in most of our rigs.

Can you elaborate on this? I have a "stock" charging system in my rig, no high voltages, stock amperage alternator, etc... as I would guesstimate many people on this site do... what modifications to the charging system would make it better suited to an optima-style battery?

For reference, I've been through two Optimas and one Exide Orbital in my rig.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

I guess Im not alone. I bought 4 of them before I figured out I was getting the shaft and my charging system had nothing wrong with it that a good ol lead/acid plate battery couldnt fix.

Most are actual unhappy folks, not just random word matches.
http://us.yhs.search.yahoo.com/avg/...vg-chrome&type=yahoo_avg_hs2-tb-web_chrome_us

Search Results

1 - 10 of about 35,800 for optima batteries suck - 0.57 sec.

 

[Gibby1]

I would bet that Dale fried his batteries with the very high voltages his system runs at, it's a common issue with the PPW gear.
.

In this case no. My PPW system has been out for over a year and I've been running on the GM one-wire cheapy. My issue is a little bit of undercharging because of the low output of the alternator and the high draw useage. Some of this is user stupidity. I have electric line locks. I lock the rear wheels on the trailer and I freqently forget to turn them off when I get home. I also have a drain somewhere in the system so if I don't shut my batteries off, a couple weeks later, they're dead. I have been stuck 3-4 times now unable to finish winching myself or someone else because I killed the batteries, and then I couldn't restart either. I just put the 3rd battery in a few minutes ago. if nothing else, it's a spare for emergencies. I might wait to hook it all in when I get back.

However, I agree that over charging COULD be the case if someone had the welder on high charge and high weld and left it that high while driving the vehicle.