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Spinoff: Fab shop welder qualifications
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<blockquote data-quote="mac5005" data-source="post: 500247" data-attributes="member: 4650"><p>The correct term for a person to weld a certain joint, with a specific process in a certain position is "qualified" not certified. </p><p></p><p>That I am aware of, there are no AWS qualifications for welding structural mild steel and chromoly tubing for use in automotive structures. </p><p></p><p>A few years ago, AWS had a press release that they were going to release a publication and specs on how to test and inspect this exact weld, but I have not seen or heard that it has been published yet. </p><p></p><p>With that covered, in my professional opinion, a welder that is qualified to weld plate in all positions with short circuit GMAW, and pipe in 6G position would be more than capable. </p><p></p><p>There is more to passing a qualification test than making the weld. </p><p></p><p>You have to prepare the groove correctly, assemble and tack the plates or pipe correctly, make the welds without exceeding a specific interpass temperature in the HAZ. </p><p></p><p>The weld has to meet visual acceptance criteria before it is either cut into strips called coupons, polished out and bent, or X-rayed. </p><p></p><p>Any error in making the weld WILL show up in a destructive bend test especially with short circuit GMAW. </p><p></p><p>Any error in the preparation, fabrication, weld, and cutting, grinding and polishing of the weld test will result in a failure. All aspects must be done correctly and per instruction to pass the qualification test. </p><p></p><p>The biggest problem with mig, is that the top face of the weld may look ok, with desirable weave, or circular puddle manipulation, but the underside, the root of the weld will be cold with very little fusion at the base of the joint. </p><p></p><p>This typically comes from the mentality of </p><p>" just turn the machine up, and burn it in". </p><p></p><p>This does not work or apply to short circuit mig welding. The mig arc does not have the arc force like stick or tig welding, and then the puddle builds outward.</p><p></p><p>The puddle itself insulates the arc from every reaching the base metal. </p><p></p><p>I have seen hundreds, if not thousands, of mig welds that looked good enough to meet the visual acceptance criteria to fail tremendously during the bend.</p><p></p><p>The key to making a competent short circuit gmaw weld is to keep the arc on the very front edge of the puddle in order to keep the bottom "root" of the puddle from becoming cold. Do not let the weld "build up", or hold the arc in the same spot, hoping to "burn in". </p><p></p><p></p><p>I do not know the hiring practices of the big shops or the qualifications of the big names or individuals building buggies and cages for sale. </p><p></p><p>An easy test for someone to ask for, if they are purchasing work from someone for a roll cage, tube chassis etc, is for the builder to take some scrap pieces of tube, cope one at 45 degrees, and weld it single pass. </p><p></p><p>Take this and smash it with a big sledge hammer trying to break the coped piece off. This is by no means a qualification or an official test of a weld, but is a good indication of the weld. </p><p></p><p>If a bench made weld on scrap tube breaks, the welds made out of position on that cage, in a tight joint, will be worse. </p><p></p><p>The weld should not break itself, it should tear the tubing where the weld meets the tube. </p><p></p><p>If the tube tears at the edge of the heat affected zone, an inch or so beside the weld, too much heat was put into that joint at once. </p><p></p><p>Or just post the resulting pics of destroyed weld and let Hardline decide.</p><p></p><p></p><p>A couple very generic rules: </p><p></p><p>If you see tack - tack - tack or trigger welding on anything other than cosmetic sheet metal, run!!!</p><p></p><p>If you see deep grooves on either side of the weld bead where the bead meets the tubing, go somewhere else. </p><p></p><p>If a 1" wide weave is on a 1.75" tube joint, go somewhere else. </p><p></p><p>Other notes, if you are working on your own vehicle, doing fab work and come across something you don't feel comfortable welding, DONT weld it. </p><p></p><p>Tack it in place to hold it, and go ask a friend that is a qualified welder to come weld it. Might cost you a few bucks, or case of beer, bottle of booze, or some fab work in trade. </p><p></p><p>It's far better to have someone who is confident and capable in their welding to make those welds. </p><p></p><p>If you don't know or have a buddy that welds professionally, go down to your local community college and ask around who has what qualifications and wants to do some real welding. </p><p></p><p>I'll bet you can find some guys/girls that need beer/gas money or that are willing to weld that up for cheap/free/trade. It's much easier to accomplish this, if you are set up with a welder ready to go and everything cleaned, rust and paint free, tacked up and ready to weld. </p><p></p><p>All someone has to do is show up and weld it all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mac5005, post: 500247, member: 4650"] The correct term for a person to weld a certain joint, with a specific process in a certain position is "qualified" not certified. That I am aware of, there are no AWS qualifications for welding structural mild steel and chromoly tubing for use in automotive structures. A few years ago, AWS had a press release that they were going to release a publication and specs on how to test and inspect this exact weld, but I have not seen or heard that it has been published yet. With that covered, in my professional opinion, a welder that is qualified to weld plate in all positions with short circuit GMAW, and pipe in 6G position would be more than capable. There is more to passing a qualification test than making the weld. You have to prepare the groove correctly, assemble and tack the plates or pipe correctly, make the welds without exceeding a specific interpass temperature in the HAZ. The weld has to meet visual acceptance criteria before it is either cut into strips called coupons, polished out and bent, or X-rayed. Any error in making the weld WILL show up in a destructive bend test especially with short circuit GMAW. Any error in the preparation, fabrication, weld, and cutting, grinding and polishing of the weld test will result in a failure. All aspects must be done correctly and per instruction to pass the qualification test. The biggest problem with mig, is that the top face of the weld may look ok, with desirable weave, or circular puddle manipulation, but the underside, the root of the weld will be cold with very little fusion at the base of the joint. This typically comes from the mentality of " just turn the machine up, and burn it in". This does not work or apply to short circuit mig welding. The mig arc does not have the arc force like stick or tig welding, and then the puddle builds outward. The puddle itself insulates the arc from every reaching the base metal. I have seen hundreds, if not thousands, of mig welds that looked good enough to meet the visual acceptance criteria to fail tremendously during the bend. The key to making a competent short circuit gmaw weld is to keep the arc on the very front edge of the puddle in order to keep the bottom "root" of the puddle from becoming cold. Do not let the weld "build up", or hold the arc in the same spot, hoping to "burn in". I do not know the hiring practices of the big shops or the qualifications of the big names or individuals building buggies and cages for sale. An easy test for someone to ask for, if they are purchasing work from someone for a roll cage, tube chassis etc, is for the builder to take some scrap pieces of tube, cope one at 45 degrees, and weld it single pass. Take this and smash it with a big sledge hammer trying to break the coped piece off. This is by no means a qualification or an official test of a weld, but is a good indication of the weld. If a bench made weld on scrap tube breaks, the welds made out of position on that cage, in a tight joint, will be worse. The weld should not break itself, it should tear the tubing where the weld meets the tube. If the tube tears at the edge of the heat affected zone, an inch or so beside the weld, too much heat was put into that joint at once. Or just post the resulting pics of destroyed weld and let Hardline decide. A couple very generic rules: If you see tack - tack - tack or trigger welding on anything other than cosmetic sheet metal, run!!! If you see deep grooves on either side of the weld bead where the bead meets the tubing, go somewhere else. If a 1" wide weave is on a 1.75" tube joint, go somewhere else. Other notes, if you are working on your own vehicle, doing fab work and come across something you don't feel comfortable welding, DONT weld it. Tack it in place to hold it, and go ask a friend that is a qualified welder to come weld it. Might cost you a few bucks, or case of beer, bottle of booze, or some fab work in trade. It's far better to have someone who is confident and capable in their welding to make those welds. If you don't know or have a buddy that welds professionally, go down to your local community college and ask around who has what qualifications and wants to do some real welding. I'll bet you can find some guys/girls that need beer/gas money or that are willing to weld that up for cheap/free/trade. It's much easier to accomplish this, if you are set up with a welder ready to go and everything cleaned, rust and paint free, tacked up and ready to weld. All someone has to do is show up and weld it all. [/QUOTE]
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