Superduty inner C vs. Rockwell inner

[fl-krawler]

Ok, so I sold the buggy I was building about a month ago. I kept the axles, planning to use them for a new chassis build that I am starting. I've decided To go lighter, and drop some additional ride height. To do this I was going to run a Ford Superduty front HP60, stuffed with a Currie 35 spline HP70 gear set. In the back I'm going with a 40 spline 14bolt. Buggy will still be rolling on 47 LTB's and Raceline wheels. The buggy will have a 700hp L92/6L80/Stak 3 speed. I am far from a rock bouncer, but I will hammer the buggy when needed (with a 6k buggy, 49 irocks and 400hp, a set of stock rockwell shafts would last me about 4-6 months of wheeling every weekend) I am shooting for a sub 5k weight on this new one.

My delima is in choosing my knuckles and inner C's. In the front, I planned to run the superduty stuff (since it was already on the axle) and due to the fact that a rockwell shaft will fit, if I ever need more strength (I was planning to go with a set of RCV's, or Ouverson rockwell shafts resplined to 40 spline)

The rear is where most of my concern is. Originally I was just going to use some rockwell knuckle cutoffs, and 40 spline rockwell shafts and call it a day (I already have Ouverson super-8 hubs). The cutoffs will run me roughly $500 (less if I buy an entire axle, and part out everything I don't use). The last few days though, I have been thinking about just buying another superduty HP60, and using the knuckles and inner C's from it (I can buy '05/newer superduty 60's all day long for less than $300 from the local salvage yard). My thoughts were that if it did break, I could always upgrade the parts to rockwell stuff, but if it proved strong enough I could eventually upgrade to Spidertrax's pro series wheel hubs (which are stupid light).

What does everybody else think? For building the axles themselves I am hugely budget minded, since I have many other parts to buy for the buggy, but once it is finished and I go to buy shafts, I really won't have a budget limit on those (but I do want something that will be reliable).

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Superduty inner C vs. Rockwell inner

The 05+ super duty stuff seems to hold up for Dale Larson (from the videos and internet chatter I've seen)

And I thought that all the spider trax stuff was based in 99-04 unit bearings? edit: yep, looks like they are, and the Pro Series hubs are $1200+ EACH. Holy ****.


Also, if you run the same unit bearings all the way around, you won't have to change lug patterns, just get 8x170 wheels (unless you were planning on 8x6.5 anyway)

 

[jordan7118]

No input, though I'm curious to see what you decide to do

 

[fl-krawler]

I am really torn.. In the front I have no real worries (I haven't broken a front axleshaft in almost 10 years of heavy wheeling). If I go with the superduty setup in the back, the one thing that really worries me, even if I go with a rockwell sized joint is fact that the stub shaft is so short (which in theory will make it break easier) because I would have to go with '11 and newer knuckles and unit bearings to be able to remove a rockwell sized shaft without removing the knuckle. For that reason I would probably stay with 40 spline RCV's with the 1 ton sized joint, and the '05 unit bearing/knuckle since the stub is longer.

Basically it comes down to that, and the fact that is I go superduty now, I will save a little now, but I will get hammered later. This is how I am breaking it down:

Superduty axle..........$250 (for the inner C's, knuckles and unit bearings)
machine work to the inner c...free-$200
RCV shafts.................$2200 (maybe less but I will have to shop around)

OR

Rockwell knuckle cut offs...........$500
Machine work to make them mate to round tube...Free-$200
ouverson 40 spline rockwell shafts...............$1500

If I go with the superduty setup and find it doesn't hold up, I will be out not only the money for the intial setup, but going back to rockwell stuff. There is no arguement that the ford stuff will be substantially lighter than the rockwell stuff though. I have a few weeks to make up my mind, so I'm not in a huge rush to make a decision.

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Superduty inner C vs. Rockwell inner

I didn't think there was a size difference in an 05 and an 11 axle on the outers?

I have an 11 axle and the stubs look just like the other ones 05+ that I've seen posted.




I don't see how you could remove the knuckle with the shaft installed, being that it's a ball joint knuckle and has to drop down a ways to come out of the C.....?

 

[fl-krawler]

Re: Re: Superduty inner C vs. Rockwell inner

I didn't think there was a size difference in an 05 and an 11 axle on the outers?

I have an 11 axle and the stubs look just like the other ones 05+ that I've seen posted.




I don't see how you could remove the knuckle with the shaft installed, being that it's a ball joint knuckle and has to drop down a ways to come out of the C.....?

The '11 has the larger through hole so a rockwell shaft will fit easily.. I know one person who is running rockwell shafts in an 05 setup and he side he has to pull the knuckle to remove them.. Conversation went no further and I don't know what he did to make it happen. I believe he just removed the unit bearing so the knuckle had room to move.

After looking a little more this morning, I am leaning towards doing rockwell outers f/r. I need to look but if there is enough meat on a rockwell shaft for them to be resplined to 40 spline, I can go with a set of stock length front shafts on my front axle, and have 2 long side rear shafts resplined to fit the 14 bolt (for a centered diff). Then, I can buy ouversons for my main shafts, and keep the resplined stock shafts as spares. All of my stub shafts would be off the shelf parts. If I can get an ARB or spool for my front HP60 (with the jana 76 kit) with 16 spline, it will make all the shafts in the front axle off the shelf parts. I have a set of steering rockwells here at the shop that could donate the knuckle ends, but I was really trying to save them for a 4 door jeep TJ I was planning to build next year. Maybe I will just go ahead and part them out to build my new axles.

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Superduty inner C vs. Rockwell inner

Ah, I had a moment of temporary retardation. Of course you could remove the unit bearing and have plenty of room to drop the knuckle.

Can you post some measurements of the 05 knuckle so I can compare to the 2011 ?

 

[Mortalis5509]

Re: Re: Superduty inner C vs. Rockwell inner

My 05 sd rcv are in but I'm waiting on a picture. They weren't shipped to me.

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[patooyee]

Re:

There's not enough meat on a stock rock shaft for 40 splines.

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[fl-krawler]

Re:

There's not enough meat on a stock rock shaft for 40 splines.

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Yep, biggest disappointment of my day yesterday because I was given 4 sets of rzeppa shafts for free. Oh well I will save them for my 4 door TJ. JJ, who did you go through to get your rockwell kingpin bell's when you started your axle project? Red River quoted me at $500 for (2) bells,(2) knuckles, and (2) spindles. I'm going to email a few other places today, and I'm still debating just buying 2 axles and parting them out.

 

[patooyee]

Re:

Red river. I paid what you were quoted. I got the entire corner torched off, hubs and all.

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[fl-krawler]

After quite a bit of research the last few days, I think I have made up my mind on the route I'm going to take. I'm going to go with the rockwell outers and just buy 4 knuckle cut-offs from Red River. Since I am being given 2 complete sets of Rzeppa shafts for free, I am going to have Branik cut new inner shafts with the correct spline at the joint, and 40 spline at the diff. These will be what I use to get the buggy drivable, and will eventually get replaced with a set of RCV's, or Ouverson's when my budget allows.

 

[patooyee]

Branik can make inner shafts with the ball and claw joints? (Last I heard, they couldn't even do rockwell shafts.)

 

[fl-krawler]

Branik can make inner shafts with the ball and claw joints? (Last I heard, they couldn't even do rockwell shafts.)

The Rzeppa shafts are the birfield style, and the inner shaft is removable.

The Bendix shafts are the "ball and claw" style shaft that is weak as hell and useless.

The\Rzeppa shafts are arguably stronger than the stock u joint shafts. Branik can do double splined 1.71" 4340 shafts. I would just have one end splined to match the Rzeppa joint, and the other in 40 spline to match my carriers. From my research, this will be the easiest way to get custom length inners, in the right spline, without going to something weaker than a stock rockwell shaft, that won't break the bank

 

[patooyee]

Oh, I didn't know the inner was removeable on the Rzeppas and even though you clearly stated Rzeppa, I was thinking ball and claw.