Who should pay for a tree falling on the power line? Everybody or the tree owner?

[Tankota]

Currently if you hit a power pole with your car and you get caught (pretty likely cause you aint gettin far after hitting a power pole) then you get the bill to fix it. If you don't think this is true then check it out for yourself by calling PSE.

No tree stands forever...that is a fact. They are gonna fall over at some point. Alot of them did lately in case you didn't notice. Its not a matter of if...its only a matter time.
Now if a property owner has a tree which falls on the line and/or pole and a crew is needed to come fix it, they don't get the bill...every one of the other customers in the service area (PSE or Snohomish PUD etc) gets the bill through increased rates. This pisses me off.

This means YOU are paying for this irresponsible property owner's lack of maintainenance to their own property.

Do you think YOU should pay for their lack of responsibility? Shouldn't they also have to pay for your generator fuel or your hotel room while you wait for the power to be restored? I do.
Your TREE = YOUR BILL!

PS A main reason I chose to buy a house where there were no tall trees is this scenario. I had a choice between two similar houses and chose the one not in a neighborhood surrounded by 100ft tall fir trees. Its just common sense.:mad:

 

[Zap]

It's a crappy thing, but it's how it goes. Our big Poplar tree sent roots 30 feet, all the way under the alley behind my house and over to my neighbor's house, where it busted his water line. 8 feet down.
It was our fault, cost 300 bucks.

 

[AUGDOG]

:rb: **** happens...It's the way of nature.

 

[pokey]

your tree you fault no matter what. Thats why we have insurance. If one of my trees falls on the neighbors house its my problem. So why not for the power companys.:wtf:

And btw your just lazy from having to clean up from the trees around your folks place most of your life:booo:

 

[Tankota]

:rb: **** happens...It's the way of nature.

Yah, the wind blows...but you as a property owner can control how big your trees get. If you allow them to get to a size where if they fall they will damage power lines or someone elses house/property then you should be responsible for the damage.

 

[Tankota]

your tree you fault no matter what. Thats why we have insurance. If one of my trees falls on the neighbors house its my problem. So why not for the power companys.:wtf:

And btw your just lazy from having to clean up from the trees around your folks place most of your life:booo:

Actually one of my parents trees fell on the neighbors house. My parents insurance company said the neighbors insurance has to cover it unless it was an obvious and noted problem with the tree beforehand (e.g. it was rotten and pointed out by the neighbor but not taken down).

As for picking up tree branches etc...yah, what a pain. Even worse is when they damage your 4x4 :D Happened to a friend of mine in Vancouver with the last storm...neighbors tree branch caused $1000 damage to his pickup cab roof.

 

[SeaRubi]

i love ballard ... :flipoff::flipoff:

my bamboo almost scraped up the rain gutter. almost.

 

[Lucky Jeff]

replacing the pole I get it. But if you want them to refund ALL of the money because of a windstorm. Food, generator and all of that crap. Good luck, "oh dammit, I had thousands of dollars worth of food that had to be thrown out, dont have proof but pay me anyways!" :haha:. And there is no way in hell I am going to chop down every single tree around every single house because of the threat of wind.. screwwwwww THAT!

 

[wheelinjp]

:kissmyass: I have to disagree with this. I dont think it is fair or feasable to make every property owner responsible for the trees on their property. It is nature that breaks tree limbs off or wind that uproots a perfectly good tree. If it is my responibility then I will complain that my neighbors or the companies powerlines are in my trees natural growth path:hi: and I want it all moved underground with pad mounted transformers instead of overhead. This is the best way to insure weather doesnt take out the powerlines with trees or otherwise. So my question is they didnt do it right in the first place, why should I be responsible when there is a method of installing it without tree damage. Who will pay for them to all go underground? They recently had the chance, my service feeders are less than 4 years old. :looser:

 

[Lucky Jeff]

btw comparing some idiot running over a pole to a Tree that gets taken out by wind and falls over power lines is kind of silly.

 

[Tankota]

btw comparing some idiot running over a pole to a Tree that gets taken out by wind and falls over power lines is kind of silly.

Both can be prevented. Maintain the tree and the other...don't drive into the pole:flipoff: or at least quit climbing it with your wheeler:D

PS Watch for power rate increases in the near future.:mad: The utilities are all ready to go to the WUTC (the oversight commission for utilities) to get a rate increase approved.

 

[Lucky Jeff]

how can you maintain a 120 foot tree? trim the branches? And no I won't top every tree every few years either. If they expect you to chop down all of your trees to make life easier for them. Then run ALL of the power lines underground. Then we'll Yell at the land owner for causing an earthquake and hurting the underground powerlines. :flipoff:

 

[wheelinjp]

Both can be prevented. Maintain the tree and the other...don't drive into the pole:flipoff: or at least quit climbing it with your wheeler:D

PS Watch for power rate increases in the near future.:mad: The utilities are all ready to go to the WUTC (the oversight commission for utilities) to get a rate increase approved.

Well why the hell not my heating oil has already tripled in the 4 years I have had oil heat. It was .99c a gallon when I bought the house in 2002, and I just called it is currently $306.50 for 100 gallons delivered.Thats almost a thousand dollars to fill er up! I figure by the time my son is looking to buy a house is should cost him 1.2 million for a 3 bedroom 2 bath and $2000 a month to power and heat it, not including garbage removal or food. I am surprised the power hasnt gone up yet. I am sure it will since I am thinking of having an electric furnace with a heat pump installed. Once that is installed I am sure the heating oil prices will plummit. I would like to know how a family on one minimum wage income is even alive? If they had any kids they would be homeless and starving.

 

[Rich1]

Currently if you hit a power pole with your car and you get caught (pretty likely cause you aint gettin far after hitting a power pole) then you get the bill to fix it. If you don't think this is true then check it out for yourself by calling PSE.

No tree stands forever...that is a fact. They are gonna fall over at some point. Alot of them did lately in case you didn't notice. Its not a matter of if...its only a matter time.
Now if a property owner has a tree which falls on the line and/or pole and a crew is needed to come fix it, they don't get the bill...every one of the other customers in the service area (PSE or Snohomish PUD etc) gets the bill through increased rates. This pisses me off.

This means YOU are paying for this irresponsible property owner's lack of maintainenance to their own property.

Do you think YOU should pay for their lack of responsibility? Shouldn't they also have to pay for your generator fuel or your hotel room while you wait for the power to be restored? I do.
Your TREE = YOUR BILL!

PS A main reason I chose to buy a house where there were no tall trees is this scenario. I had a choice between two similar houses and chose the one not in a neighborhood surrounded by 100ft tall fir trees. Its just common sense.:mad:

Ummmm, correct'o mondo

Is it the tree on the property that belongs to the owner... or... the power company that placed the pole near the property - knowing there were trees?

should everyone foot the bill?

I have kid's in private school, yet my taxes are thru the roof for gets in public schools -

i pay taxes on all kinds of stuff, yet i do not have free healthcare or food stamps.... but people who choose not to work do - that are on welfare.

I think it should be cut & dry.... your responsible for yourself. if you can't afford to eat - get a job. if your **** does damage to someone else - you pay, kid's need education, thats cool.... but for those that have no kids in school? i don't have health care - should i pay for it for someone else?

---------------- does it matter - any of it? really............. does it?

just open your wallet and start paying! :;

 

[Mrs. Crash]

Yah, the wind blows...but you as a property owner can control how big your trees get. If you allow them to get to a size where if they fall they will damage power lines or someone elses house/property then you should be responsible for the damage.

You are kidding me right? Have you seen how close houses are built to eachother now a days? :haha: You can sit on your toilet and still ask your neighbor to hand you more TP.
If everyone cut their trees that small. No one would ever see a real tree.

 

[AUGDOG]

Yah, the wind blows...but you as a property owner can control how big your trees get. If you allow them to get to a size where if they fall they will damage power lines or someone elses house/property then you should be responsible for the damage.

Well then.. How about the trees in the greenbelt behind my house? When one of those trees fell on our house "my" insurance paid for it. Not the county whom designated that area green belt.

Take my in-laws for instance... their property and the trees on that property were in place "before" PUD decided to put power lines in for the new homes across the street.

Do you know how long you would have to live somewhere to be able to control how tall a tree grows before its tall enough to fall on some power lines? :rolleyes:


So now for devils advocate...

Should PUD or any Utilities company give those whom lose power from downed power lines some sort of compensation because "they" did not "control" how big those trees got? or prevent the falling of trees on the lines?

Its rediculous for either....

 

[Tankota]

Paying property taxes for schools when you don't have kids is a whole nother issue...lets not bring that one into this thread.:;

Zuk,Almost all the poles are in the right of way. The transmission lines (big high power ones) have an easement if they cross private property (other wise they wouldn't be there). BPA and PSE etc have rights to trim trees in those easements and often exercise that right.


In regards to some of the others posts...apparently we have some closet tree huggers in our midts:flipoff:

As for wheelinjp...I know you didn't plant that massive tree next to the house. Topping it would be spendy (unless your yard ape grows up fast enough to do it for you :D ). Also, when the lines were put in by your house they put them on poles and not in the ground. So basically you have inherited a situation that resulted from poor planning by previous owners (the tree) and the County (not requiring underground utilites...most jurisdictions require it now)and PSE (the above ground power lines). Not your fault the situation exists.
This is reflective of the situation across this state. Newer developments have underground utilities for the most part (my development was put in the mid 80s and has underground power)...however I would bet the majority of the state has above ground utilities which are susceptible to damage by windfall. You, as a property owner, can actually pay to put the lines underground...like that is even an affordable option for most of us:mad: ... Or you can try to maintain your property so it doesn't affect the rest of us when the trees sneeze.:stirpot:

 

[Tankota]

You are kidding me right? Have you seen how close houses are built to eachother now a days? :haha: You can sit on your toilet and still ask your neighbor to hand you more TP.
If everyone cut their trees that small. No one would ever see a real tree.

Due to the demand for a large houses (new house statewide average is 2500square feet) and the smaller lot sizes there is no room for trees to be left. If they leave them the roots will get damaged from the dozers and required trenching for utilites etc. Essentially I have rarely ever seen a tall tree in a new development...maybe in the death...er I mean green belt area :stirpot:

Now that is a separate issue...green belt or forbidden cut type trees that damage homes etc...that sucks. But I'm not discussing that issue...that would be for another thread (btw I saw a story on the news about this issue so we may be seeing more of it soon).

As for real trees...that's what national parks are for. National forest are for logging so good luck finding old growth there.

 

[Mrs. Crash]

<---- huge tree hugger. NEVER denied it. :clappy: :flipoff:

 

[Mrs. Crash]

As for real trees...that's what national parks are for. National forest are for logging so good luck finding old growth there.

Most of the trees around us, were here before you!

 

[Rich1]

Due to the demand for a large houses (new house statewide average is 2500square feet) and the smaller lot sizes there is no room for trees to be left. If they leave them the roots will get damaged from the dozers and required trenching for utilites etc. Essentially I have rarely ever seen a tall tree in a new development...maybe in the death...er I mean green belt area :stirpot:

Now that is a separate issue...green belt or forbidden cut type trees that damage homes etc...that sucks. But I'm not discussing that issue...that would be for another thread (btw I saw a story on the news about this issue so we may be seeing more of it soon).

As for real trees...that's what national parks are for. National forest are for logging so good luck finding old growth there.

you could also get everyone to stop moving into forests.... and rather move to the desert - like Las Vegas as a example....

rather than move into a forest - where there are already trees, wouldn't it be perfect to move to a desert where there are none to worry about falling on powerlines... or better yet, living on the Ocean in big Boats....

it's not right that we destroy so much in the name of living like the jones's.

I honestly do not think we should live in the desert, but Vegas looks kinda cool... vs moving to the pacific northwest and clear cutting into the forest, than *****ing about the animals coming into your yard, let alone a tree falling on a power line?

this is what makes the northwest what it is......

Tree's

i think a responsible person would have insurance on themselves or their real property, and/or take full rsponsibility for any damages caused by them.

 

[SpiderGrrl]

Yah, the wind blows...but you as a property owner can control how big your trees get. If you allow them to get to a size where if they fall they will damage power lines or someone elses house/property then you should be responsible for the damage.

Actually, in unincorporated King County, we cannot. That right was taken away from us a few years ago, thank you Ron Simms...

From an article about this:
"Even under the recently modified CAO, property owners are being told they must leave 50 percent to 65 percent of their land in its natural state without any compensation for the loss of use."
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/195273_julia15.html

Facts on current codes (page 5 has the "land clearing" part of it).
http://www.metrokc.gov/DDES/cao/PDFs/factRuralProperty-Fixed.pdf

 

[Lucky Jeff]

you have GOT to be kidding me.. You want to make it so that kids in school have to go on a field trip just to see trees? Maybe Washington is the wrong place for you to be living. A Penthouse in New York seems to be more your style. You may like living in places like Lakeland hills. But I sure as hell don't. You're bringing personal preferance into this instead of common sense.

 

[skrause]

If a construction crane falls in the middle of the city..... :corn: :flipoff:

 

[Lucky Jeff]

If a construction crane falls in the middle of the city..... :corn: :flipoff:

It's the hot chicks fault for distracting the operator :flipoff: . (lets face it, it's always the hot chicks fault)

 

[Blueleader]

Do you think YOU should pay for their lack of responsibility? Shouldn't they also have to pay for your generator fuel or your hotel room while you wait for the power to be restored? I do.
Your TREE = YOUR BILL!

Ok, so what do you do about all the transmission lines that were taken out during the storm? The argument could be made that they were not made to handle the storm and any trees that may have damaged them were not maintained properly. Those were the cause of a huge portion of the outages. Using your logic, BPA and PSE must owe a whole bunch of people money for generator gas and hotels. Now the rates go even higher. :mad:

Storms happen, folks. Trees fall. Power lines get damaged. The power goes out. Everyone should be prepared for losses of utility service because they all fail occasionally. I can kinda buy into the idea that the property owner should pay for damage directly done to a line or poll by one of their trees, but covering other losses like the ones mentioned is unreasonable.

 

[skrause]

I can kinda buy into the idea that the property owner should pay for damage directly done to a line or poll by one of their trees, but covering other losses like the ones mentioned is unreasonable.

Agreed. Trees show blatent warning signs of disease and decay in most cases. Sometimes the wind is just too much but if the tree was dying then it should have been taken down when it became apparent. Learn to read the signs (bark dropping, branches dying back, etc) and take care of them before it becomes a problem.

 

[wheelinjp]

Agreed. Trees show blatent warning signs of disease and decay in most cases. Sometimes the wind is just too much but if the tree was dying then it should have been taken down when it became apparent. Learn to read the signs (bark dropping, branches dying back, etc) and take care of them before it becomes a problem.

I do take care of my trees, every time the wind blows real hard the bad limbs fall off and I pick them up and burn them. In fact I had a rotten tree in my yard so I did the responsible thing. I drove up it till it fell over and dented my jeeps fender. Bent a leaf spring and tore a brake line too. Some things cant be controlled or have a blame assessed to it. Mother nature can be a mean *****, but we have to percivier and move on. I do agree though if you crash into a tree or pole you should have to pay to fix it if you live, or the road conditions and nature didnt cause it. I like big trees and think it is a cost we have to pay to enjoy them. I dont want to cut any down dying or not.:booo: :hi:


I have to say though what if I get run off the road by a road raging lunatic and hit said tree, shouldnt the lunatic that hit and ran have to pay?

 

[Pony-boy]

Rain for days on end, flooding, and no sun to dry the soil back up, followed by the worst wind storm in decades.



Sorry this fight is not a fight at all.
Trees are gonna fall,

50 year old Spruce fell on my parents property, Healthy, but the soil around it
was soaked.
I am glad I took down the tree in the front of my house this summer.
I know it would have came down.

 

[zig80toy]

Nature is to blame for the power outages and property damage, right? Whether or not power lines should be underground is another topic (Yes, i think they should, but that would be a huge cost to current customers). Anyways, everyone that owns a house has insurance right? If damage was sustained to your property than call the insurance company. But to tell the PSE to reimburse you for food and generator costs is ridiculous. What were to happen if this area experienced an earthquake? Depending on the magnitude we could all be without running water, electricity, and sewer for over a month if not more. At that point the federal government will step in and help but for a while your going to be on your own. Your going to spend your days making sure your family has enough food and water. Your not going to be collecting receipts. Lets all use this storm as a reminder of how prepared we are...