Who Wants To Know How To Get Rid Of The Busywild Restriction

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Gibby said:
Yes there is Shane. As far as timber sales go, the trees along the trail corridor are considered DEAD to the DNR.

That doesn't mean that the loggers won't take them when they log anyway, we've seen that happen. Not just affecting ORV trails. The horse people at Elbe had a huge problem where they worked with the DNR to mark off the trails and trees that were to be untouched. They even spent time with the logging company to make sure that all the untouchable areas were propertly flagged. The loggers on site just cut it all down anyway and didn't even clean up the mess when they were done. They're currently fighting with the DNR against that logging company. By contract, the logging company was to maintain the existing trail system for the horse people and clean up any mess they made that affected their trail system. They cut and ran, leaving the horse people with a TON of work to do to even make their trails passable again.
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kinda like when they clear cut elbe a few years back. we used to have the eight hour trail. then it became the busywild (shorter). now even the busy is gone.:booo:
 
CHOP SHOP said:
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Us large vehicle people still do not represent anywhere near the majority of the people using the trails. I drive what many consider to be a HUGE rig so I'm on the side of the large vehicle, built vehicle owners.
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dale please stop refering to your rig as huge. it is clearly NORMAL. its a toyota on 38s. the small rigs you keep refering to are not the majority (imo). I see mostly toyotas and jeep cherokes (always beat) and jeeps on this trail. I just dont understand. all the longer rigs ive seen work killer at elbe, thats why i stretched mine (112). now my truck is not legal to run the trail its built for. but get this, my big mud truck (dale you know this truck,orange chev) has full width rockwells, 47 inch tires, nasty motor, was assembled at 109 inches like a stock blazer. just for giggles i threw a tape on it, 82 inches from bulge to bulge. seems i will have to run elbe in this truck sinced my wheeler is not welcome anymore. just food for thought.:D[/QUOTE]

I didn't refer to my rig as huge, I said that many would. I'm on 10" of lift with 40" tires at 81" wide, 1 ton running gear, 425HP of motor and full bodied (well for the most part, I chopped the top off the rear). You're simply not correct about the small rigs being the majority. Jeeps still dominate the 4x4 trail systems in numbers. They may not be flat fenders anymore but Jeep brand vehicals are still number 1 in popularity WITHOUT question.
 
wkndtoy said:
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"This is the political game that 99% of you just don't understand. Look at how much press the infamous mirror cutout caused up on the Naches trail."


How many of you remember the "old Naches trail" (pre-1987), before the forest service revised the trail with a dozer and tons rock. Again a politcal game we lost, and we will continue to lose unless you understand what "mud4funtoy" is saying. The current naches trail is the model for all trails in washington. Think about that????
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this is understandable. the naches gets alot of traffic from all users.
elbe has been know as hardcore for along time. now it seems it needs to be restrickted or sissyed down. just doesnt seem right.


I like steves aproach. straight foward and urgent. thats what i was *****en about when the old thread got closed. it seemed the meeting info got burried, not promoted. steve has clearly wrote this up in a way to get people fired up and do something. i would be happy to help people like this not run them away from elbe. he surely shares the same passion as alot of other users and realizes not everone wheels a cj or sami that uses this trail system.


LETS KEEP THIS A HARDCORE TRAIL OPEN TO ALL:beer:
 
CHOP SHOP said:
kinda like when they clear cut elbe a few years back. we used to have the eight hour trail. then it became the busywild (shorter). now even the busy is gone.:booo:
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Exactly like what they did to the busy a few years ago. If it wasn't for the PNW4WDA, including Steve and his cohorts we would have lost a LOT more of that trail. They fought to even get the sections of the trail semi-rebuilt that we got back.

They busy is NOT gone. The busy is simply off limits to a few.

If you want to argue, then do it in the right place, with the people who make the decisions. I hope you emailed Nancy so that you get notified about the next focus group meeting and that you'll plan to be at all the future work parties so that you will have an impact on what's going on.
 
CHOP SHOP said:
elbe has been know as hardcore for along time. now it seems it needs to be restrickted or sissyed down. just doesnt seem right.

:
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You just don't pay attention do you.

We put a MINIMUM size recommendation of 36" tires on the busy, when other systems are talking about a MAXIMUM size limitation. We've prevented (at least so far) the making up huge water hole and instead been able to maintain the mud that the busy is famous for. We're working on preventing the busy from becoming a forest service road with obstacles. We're putting in a brand new rock crawl area and we're taking the easiest trail out there and converting it into a double black diamond trail to rival the busy.

Man, you get your panties in a bunch and you can't even read what's being put out there. We are working to maintain Elbe Hills AS one of the premier hardcore trails systems because when the USFS eventually comes through with their tire size limitations everyone's going to be flocking to DNR land to wheel.

The Timber Tamers tried to make the Sunrise harder with some rock sections but so many of the smaller vehicle owners whined that they had to scale it down. People kept driving through the bypasses even after they were blocked off because a few big rocks made it to hard for them. Whether you like it or not, there are more of them out there than the hardcore rigs and as a result they have more voice. And to be frank, MORE of them show up to get stuff done.

And, we took off the one way restriction on half the busywild (that section is now called the easywild) so that it can be run uphill.
 
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dale I know your proud of your axles and motor, but the axles are narrowed and you only needed them cus of the motor. it looks like half the toys up there.

you are correct about jeeps dominating the trail systems. however i was refering to elbe, not all trails. cherokes and toyotas seem to hold a majority of users (imo) on the busy. im not talking about other trails. I looked through alot of elbe run pics from this site today. then made that comment.(but still my opinion)


cjs and samis are not even produced any more. the way of the future is the newer rigs (bigger). i have no control of the future, but this is going to continue no matter what. DNR would like no future with us and this is how it starts. a little (inches) at a time.:booo:
 
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I've been there a few times where's all this hardcore stuff your talking about? 4' deep water holes are not hard core.
 
KarlVP said:
Yes and no. Ask the equestrians about that. They did lots of work on thier trails and the timber companies were supposed to restore them after they were done with thier work.

But if the DNR wanted to sell that timber, I'm sure they could find a way.
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You are right about that. They tried to log 3 years ago. There was a gos Hawk living up there and now there is more living up there. This is good for us because DNR can not log within a 2 mile radius of those birds and the birds like 4 wheelers obviously because they built there nests 25 yards from our trail.

So the true question is why does Nancy care about the small amount of trees that she can't log anyway. Because she doesn't understand your sport. She needs you to help her to realize why this is not a good idea. Please don't yell at her that won't help us.
 
I just got off the phone with Bobby Long. He said he had a 30 minute conversation with Nancy she told him That she has recieved over 100 phone calls today. Keep up the good work. We need to keep the pressure on untill we hear from Nancy that this is a dead issue. This is a good chance for all of us to educate her and help her to make good decisions in the future. Be friendly when talking to her no one want to help someone yelling at them. You all are doing a great job keep it up
 
mud4funtoy said:
So the true question is why does Nancy care about the small amount of trees that she can't log anyway. Because she doesn't understand your sport. She needs you to help her to realize why this is not a good idea. Please don't yell at her that won't help us.
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Already answered in detail above. When a tree dies or loses the support around the roots it becomes a danger. As trees along the trail go away, the trails continue to wander, and get wider and wider. How will you all like the busy when it's big enough for an F250 long bed to fit through. Will it still be the same trail that you've enjoyed for years?

Maybe we should just take the 9 road and, cut it up, throw obstacles on it and call it a trail. From the sounds of it, that's what some of you want because if we don't do something to prevent the issues caused by over sized and/or underprepared vehicles, this IS they way the busy is going to be.
 
Sounds like another trail system on its way to the same fate as TSF.
 
Gibby said:
If you show up and talk with them, you'll find out that this simply isn't true.
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When is the next meeting Dale Time - place - location. I am sure there is alot of people that want to be sure to make time in there schedule to be there. I have been to tons of meetings. I plan on being at the next one and i plan on bringing a few people with me.
 
Gibby said:
Already answered in detail above. When a tree dies or loses the support around the roots it becomes a danger. As trees along the trail go away, the trails continue to wander, and get wider and wider. How will you all like the busy when it's big enough for an F250 long bed to fit through. Will it still be the same trail that you've enjoyed for years?

Maybe we should just take the 9 road and, cut it up, throw obstacles on it and call it a trail. From the sounds of it, that's what some of you want because if we don't do something to prevent the issues caused by over sized and/or underprepared vehicles, this IS they way the busy is going to be.
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Its still fun after 30 years why wouldn't it be fun for 30 more
 
Jaydog said:
Too bad those 100 people weren't at the Focus Meeting, we probably wouldn't be where we are today. :mad:
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That will only work if the meeting is set up for that kind of interaction. If you suprise anybody with a lynchmob you wont get anywhere fast. In fact you will be going backwards and loosing all credibility in the process.:booo:
 
pokey said:
That will only work if the meeting is set up for that kind of interaction. If you suprise anybody with a lynchmob you wont get anywhere fast. In fact you will be going backwards and loosing all credibility in the process.:booo:
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sure sounds better than hiding the meeting info in someone elses thread so only 4 people show up.:cheer: a showing of 4 people surely must represent the whole crowd, right?? :booo: much more fair than a lynch mob
 
Good news the word is starting to get out. .IT'S ABOUT TIME WE START FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS. As much work as you did today, we need to continue each and every day untill we hear from Nancy that this is a dead issue. We have magazines and news papers that want to do articles on this. My club has a legal fund, other organizations want to help with the legal fund, I am picking up flyers on Friday To disstribute. We Will not let this become a rule or law. I will update you further about who they all are once I am sure it is ok to do so.
 
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