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Shifty*EBP*

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on the health care plan? What does it mean to you personally? What does it mean for your parents and your children? Honestly it scares the hell out of me. Please discuss and try to stay on topic. This is an issue that will have a vast effect on you and your way of life one way or the other regardless of your position on the topic.
 
I really haven't read much into it.. And I should. My "guess" is that I would be against it.. At the moment. We are in need of help since my g/f doesn't work, and I am un-employed, we have a kid, with another on the way. But that is being taken care of under the options available now. So putting us in debt to help even more people that from my understanding, REALLY don't deserve it. Does NOT sound like the way to go. If I am wrong, the someone correct me. Because my problem IS short term. And I HATE borrowing money, and to me, the state I am in, is borrowing money.
 
I wish I had a health care plan...

Currently I'm the only one working and my company at this time doesn't provide a health plan. So I'll take whatever I can get. :cool:
 
on the health care plan? What does it mean to you personally? What does it mean for your parents and your children? Honestly it scares the hell out of me. Please discuss and try to stay on topic. This is an issue that will have a vast effect on you and your way of life one way or the other regardless of your position on the topic.

I am also scared of what Congress and the President are trying to do in this area. Hell they have screwed up everything they touch and it ends up costing us more and more.

One part that really pisses me off is that they have exempted themselves from what ever they force upon the rest of us, just like they did with Social Security.

I pay over $500.00 per month right now for Health Insurance for my wife and I and all I can see it it increasing while my income is fixed as I am retired. Also the things I have read seem to indicate that the older I get the less the governing body they propose to create will approve the things my wife and I may need, but I am willing to bet my costs will not decrease with the coverage.

And I am not for providing Health Care for Illegals, Food, Housing or any other Service while there are hard working and those that want to be working US Citizens are not getting the services they need.
 
Tough question kevin. On one handI think its a good idea to the fact it should bring rates down--that I am getting raped on now. On the other hand--where is the money going to come from.
 
Tough question kevin. On one handI think its a good idea to the fact it should bring rates down--that I am getting raped on now. On the other hand--where is the money going to come from.

Your going to keep getting raped and it will not be with any Lube!!
 
Anyone that doesn't like their current plan is free to go to another provider. If you think you are getting ripped off change it, don't depend on the govt that has managed to **** everything else they have touched into the dirt.

If they would fix the VA and make it sustainable I'd be all for insuring everyone but that'll NEVER happen.
 
Your going to keep getting raped and it will not be with any Lube!!

My rates go up at least 20% every year and I would figure 1/4 of my income goes to health premiums. Sucks forking out almost $700 a month...
 
Anyone that doesn't like their current plan is free to go to another provider. If you think you are getting ripped off change it, don't depend on the govt that has managed to **** everything else they have touched into the dirt.

If they would fix the VA and make it sustainable I'd be all for insuring everyone but that'll NEVER happen.

Have you looked into it? Sure on a single person its different--try adding a family into that mix and you get hit even harder. You won't find a cheaper plan when you are looking for being self insured when you wage a group plan. It just doesn't work.


Problem lies trying to add a government backed health plan is a cover--they need to fix the root problems with health care.
 
Check out the cobra plans, there is also a bunch of state plans to aid in insuring children.

I am actually all for STATE ran insurance but under no circumstances should the fed be involved, they simply do not have the power under the constitution.
 
Check out the cobra plans, there is also a bunch of state plans to aid in insuring children.

I am actually all for STATE ran insurance but under no circumstances should the fed be involved, they simply do not have the power under the constitution.

Ya--but those type of plans you gotta make below a certain amount.

Which constitutional law?
 
My view is that the government has atleast 3 programs they run that are in deep ****, Medicare, Medicade, and social security. There is monumental mismanagement and waste with in these programs. That fact alone tells me the government can't run a new program efficiently. Until they can fix the problems in existing programs there is no way in hell they should enact legislation to create another. I am vary aware of the current health care situation in this country, the out of control cost's, the uninsured, the fraud, the denial of life saving care ect. I also am a proponent of freedom of choice. If I choose not to have coverage as some do, that is my choice, not that of the government. It is my and the Dr's choice as to what the best treatment is, not that of a government agency. I can choose the treatment or not, once again my choice not that of a mandated healthcare plan. As always where universal care seem great and free, you will be paying for it through higher tax's and limited choice if any. You must remember there is no free lunch.
 
My view is that the government has atleast 3 programs they run that are in deep ****, Medicare, Medicade, and social security. There is monumental mismanagement and waste with in these programs. That fact alone tells me the government can't run a new program efficiently. Until they can fix the problems in existing programs there is no way in hell they should enact legislation to create another. I am vary aware of the current health care situation in this country, the out of control cost's, the uninsured, the fraud, the denial of life saving care ect. I also am a proponent of freedom of choice. If I choose not to have coverage as some do, that is my choice, not that of the government. It is my and the Dr's choice as to what the best treatment is, not that of a government agency. I can choose the treatment or not, once again my choice not that of a mandated healthcare plan. As always where universal care seem great and free, you will be paying for it through higher tax's and limited choice if any. You must remember there is no free lunch.

Well said....
 
Which constitutional law?

Ever read the constitution? If it's been awhile I HIGHLY suggest you read it and think about what's going on. If it doesn't piss you off I'd be shocked.


Article 1 section 8 contains the enumerated powers of the fed. The 10 amendment spells out that anything the fed is given express permission to do is left up to the states.
 
My view is that the government has atleast 3 programs they run that are in deep ****, Medicare, Medicade,



medicare and medicade cost about $200 a mounth per person on it. compare that to the near $400 a month the rest of us generaly healthier people pay on average for health insurance.




Bob
 
Fundamentally I'm for some sort of BASIC, preventive heathcare for all. Regular Dr. visits, check ups and testing can nip potentially costly and deadly issues in the butt before drastic measures need to be enacted. A cut on the finger should be looked at, clean and stitches put in before it gets infected, has to be cut off and a prosthetic installed.

However I also defiantly agree that in its current state, the gov, be it Fed or State, wouldn't be able to run it worth ****. Too many hands in the pickle jar, too many special interests, too much pork. And (as sad as it is) I don't see any way to make that go away. Its human nature to look out for yourself, and your friends and family. We all do it and justify it, but when people of power do it, they are evil. Sure you could fire everybody and being in a whole new batch.... but it would only be a (short) matter of time before its right back were it was. Corruption is almost natural. And form different point of views, you can find corruption EVERYWHERE (sorry, side track).

The nature of health care itself is too bloated and mired down in ridiculous costs, greed, special interest, litigation and suet's. In order for ANY sort of affordable health care to exist, the COST of heath care needs to go down. I don't mind doctors making a good salary, they sacrifice a big chunk of their early life and have to deal with some nasty ****. But when they have to charge 300-400% MORE (made up numbers, but you get the point) to cover their ass cause someone *might* sue because they are not miracle workers (blatant malpractice aside). There is something wrong.

*I* would like to see healthcare pulled AWAY from employment. Companies (that offer health care) pay out the ass for it... or they have to make the employee pay a burden of that (which results in *****ing). This makes the cost of everything go up. Plus if you DON'T have a job, you typically don't have it. Your EMPLOYER should not be in charge of making sure your covered, they are just the ones offering to the opportunity for them to pay you to do work for them (and yes, make them money, that it the reason they are in business). Coverage should be your own choice. But if you don't pay in some way, don't expect others to bail you out.


Healthcare should be like auto insurance. Short of the new laws (to protect others), you don't *need* coverage. But a smart person sets aside a portion of their income to cover themselves "just in case". Heathcare should be set up the same way, but affordable, strait forward and practical.


And yes, if its subsidized of gov provided it should only be available for citizens or LEAGAL, tax paying immigrants (you pay INTO the system, you can reap the benefits OUT of the system).

The current Heathcare "reform" being rammed through scares me for one reason even without researching it... they are trying to cram it in too fast. While I'm against organizations spending tons of time and cash "studding" something, I don't see anyway that a smooth running, lean, efficient system can be in place in only a few months.
 
I've said it before and I think before they do anything, they need to eliminate all the waste in excess paperwork, processing, insurance, etc costs. And then see where we're at. Administrative costs since 1970 have gone up like 2-300% and it's not just because it costs more to do it. It actually costs less (computers, etc) when take in inflation. The true costs are the layers upon layers of beauracratic BS that has been added. That include insurance costs and fraud, etc. None of those costs go directly to health care.
 
I've said it before and I think before they do anything, they need to eliminate all the waste in excess paperwork, processing, insurance, etc costs. And then see where we're at. Administrative costs since 1970 have gone up like 2-300% and it's not just because it costs more to do it. It actually costs less (computers, etc) when take in inflation. The true costs are the layers upon layers of beauracratic BS that has been added. That include insurance costs and fraud, etc. None of those costs go directly to health care.


so how could they eliminate these costs w/o doing anything. oh an your 2-300% thats in inflation adjusted dollars.



Bob
 
Bob, you seem to be in defense of this program? I come at this with a point of view not related to any party line, do you? When I read stories of medicade renting a wheel chair for 1800 a year where the same chair could be bought new for less than 500 it really makes me question the system. There are alot of people who stand to lose lucrative government contracts through reform and better management of the current systems in place. We can sit here and argue numbers all day long, but that is not the point. The point is how this will affect you and your family. I look at like this. "Universal car allotment" is what I shall call my new government program. Everybody gets a new car every 5 years to drive, everyone pays for these cars weather they use them or not. The catch is every car is identical, if you want to drive you will drive what is provided by the government. Chew on that for a bit. I am not wholly against coverage for tax paying citizens, but there needs to be a better definition, better control, less government ramming it up our ass and telling us this is the way it will be. Like I said Bob, my opinion has nothing to do with party lines rather what is for the greater good of the nation.
 
I wish I had a health care plan...

Currently I'm the only one working and my company at this time doesn't provide a health plan. So I'll take whatever I can get. :cool:

If you have money to build a 'wheeler and buy a new big screen HDTV, you have money to buy health insurance. If you prioritize that stuff over health care, that's your own business and you can handle any consequences, not me. Too many people have an entitlement mentality.

Studies have shown that over 40% of the uninsured in this country can afford health care insurance but choose not too buy it. That's their problem, not mine.

I agree that our health care system needs serious reform, but I don't believe or trust that the government can do it. Look at every other social program they run.
 
medicare and medicade cost about $200 a mounth per person on it. compare that to the near $400 a month the rest of us generaly healthier people pay on average for health insurance.




Bob

Do you know anyone who is on Medicare or Medicaid? They either have to buy supplemental policies or live in poverty and accept substandard health care.
 
What I don't get is why the big rush? If this is so important to do, then it needs to be done right. The way I see it is that the dems are pushing this thru so fast that it cannot be fairly judged. Just like they did the stimulas package..and look at what a mess that is turning out to be..full of pork barrel BS.
IMO there is NO way this health care act will work without HUGH tax increases. For Obama to tell us that it will be neutral or even savings is also BS.

Personally for me, and this is just my siutuation, I have health care. I'm happy with it most of the time. I cover myself, wife and kids thru my work with a reasonable monthly deduction from my pay. When I retire, I will continue to receive health insurance for life. I'd like to think it's because I've earned it...in fact I have.

What pisses me off about the plan is that they have talked about taxing health care benifits as income. So if my employer pays $1200 a month for my insurance, I will be taxed that as income to pay for someone elses coverage.
WTF? Why not just drop my coverage and let someone else pay for me? I'll then go and sign up for the free stuff....Ain't America great?

Has anybody been paying attention to all the town hall videos that are popping up? People are angry and telling their congressmen about it under no un-certain terms. Then the White House comes out and disses these people and un-informed and being backed by anti-Obama right wing orginazitions.
The White House has also asked people to inform on any contacts they have that speak out against the health care plan..It reminds me and Hitler's tactics .
 
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Bob, if you are so sure this proposed Health Care Package is good, then please explain each of these items for us uninformed.

The Proposed Health Care Plan:

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you receive

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED. You can only receive a certain amount of "care" per year

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice.

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US residents, illegal or otherwise

Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Health Card will be issued.

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your banks accts for funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (example -ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control.

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for private HC plans in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare.

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individually for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Benefit Levels for Plans.#AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed

-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill -
Medicaid Eligible Indiv. will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt monopoly

pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell you what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with a payroll 400k & above who does not prov. public option, pays 8% tax on all payroll

pg 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between 251k & 400k that don't prov. pub. opt pay 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC accordng to Govt will be taxed 2.5%

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill, Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (American taxpayers will pay for them)

Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal records

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax"

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill, Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid, Seniors, low income, poor will be very affected

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesn"t matter what specialty you have, will all be paid the same

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, professional judgments, etc.

PG 265 Sec 1131 ,Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS -Cancer patients - rationing according to age

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable re-admissions.

Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have oppt to apply for exception BUT community input required.

Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates estab. of outcome based measures. Rationing

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing all into Govt HC plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates Telehealth Advisory Cmtte. HC by phone

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Seniors will be interviewed every five years for health issues and decisions made as to what care they can or can't receive

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides apprvd list of end of life resources, guiding you in death

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans.

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs.

Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a community-based org.

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage

Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Svcs including defining, creating, rationing those services

Now don't skip any when you answer as each and every item listed above affects each and everyone of us as some point in our lives.

Go and read just these listed pages, then come and tell us how we should let the Government Control our Health Care.
 
You wanna make healthcare cheaper? Get the lawyers out of it. Look at the malpractice suits brought up every year and see just how many of those suits are actually won by the "victim"... ****ing ambulance chasers...
 
Bob, if you are so sure this proposed Health Care Package is good, then please explain each of these items for us uninformed.

The Proposed Health Care Plan:



Now don't skip any when you answer as each and every item listed above affects each and everyone of us as some point in our lives.

Go and read just these listed pages, then come and tell us how we should let the Government Control our Health Care.


source?


perhaps on saturday or sunday i'll poke a few holes in this crap.


Bob
 
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You wanna make healthcare cheaper? Get the lawyers out of it. Look at the malpractice suits brought up every year and see just how many of those suits are actually won by the "victim"... ****ing ambulance chasers...

That right there is what drives costs up, you see it every day there is a new advertisement for people to sue some pharmaceutical company for a drug they willingly took :eeek:

My fear is that I will be forced into gov run healhcare and everyone knows that the govt can **** up a 2 car funeral. Right now we pay less than $200 a month for group health .
 
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