TreeClimber
Well-Known Member
somebody should rename this thread from "tail specs" to 'trail specs'. That little 'r' can change the meaning a whole bunch.
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Help Support Hardline Crawlers :
Final Reiter trail specs
- Thread starter Binder
- Start date
I am sorry that you had a bad expieriance with a "club' at Evans. I can assure you that most of our clubs were (are) not happy with the changes either. I have been very involved (up to my neck) in the process that has led up to these changes and I can promise you that there was NO club influance that brought on these changes. What caused the changes was the fact that the entire forest plan went under review because of the plan for improvements. The "oligests" picked it apart and insisted that the rules be followed. end of story. and we all loose:booo:
Ty.
Well-Known Member
We all know Binders favorite "tail specs"
http://nw-wheelers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=717066#post717066olywa
Well-Known Member
Exactly why I try and not go down those skinny a** trails.... :redneck:
no full size here..... :fawkdancesmiley:
But hey it was still a good Saturday debate over an on going problem in our community....... :awesomework:
olywa
Well-Known Member
Pokey I did not want to step on any toes or anything like that with my post earlier..... I was blowing a little built up steam when I seen the restrictions yet again in our wheeling community, when in fact we need to unite as one, if that can ever happen, them Jeep guys are a pretty hard headed group :fawkdancesmiley: just kidding...... When in fact all we want is to have a place to go wheel and do what we like to do.......
Again thanks to all of you that are putting in all the hard work to get this place re-opened and for all of the other great things you guys have done for our community......
Can't wait to see you guys out there when she get opened back up again, even if you are on a purple trail....LOL :kiss:
Again thanks to all of you that are putting in all the hard work to get this place re-opened and for all of the other great things you guys have done for our community......
Can't wait to see you guys out there when she get opened back up again, even if you are on a purple trail....LOL :kiss:
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YJMatt
Member
Where did everyone come up with the idea of an 86 inch wheel base on this purple trail? Everything I've read, looks like its a width restriction with max width being 86 inches. To me 86 inches is still pretty decent. Either way I hope that Reiter reopens soon so that I can finally check it out.
Totalled
That Ford Guy
Since when was 94" (BII/Wranglers) a LWB? :eeek:
Read the document again. I think the author meant track width and used WB. It refers to width, not length.
Read the document again. I think the author meant track width and used WB. It refers to width, not length.
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dirk
Well-Known Member
The following comments are not necessarily directed at Mike...So, we need to band together and fight for what we want. It won't get done by letting others speak on your behalf. We need to tell the DNR/FS exactly what we want.
Again...we should be asking for exactly what we want. Maybe we won't get it right away, but at least they will know where we are headed.
You know damn well how hard it is to get approval for new trail mileage...the user group has changed...the trails should change as well. I am all about building new trails, but that doesn't mean only stocker flatty's/old CJ's should be allowed on our current trails. I realize that PNW4WDA members built a majority of what we have with those rigs in mind, but the rig profile has changed.
In the end, I think there should be a variety of trails to satisfy a variety of rigs.
I'll cut this down to long story short.
The reality is, that by the time you factor in all the regulations, the odds of you finding a natural made trail or play area on any publicly known DNR land that will satisfy those with bigger rigs is nearly non-existant.
What you are looking for is going to have to be all man made, and it probably won't be trail, it'll be obstacles to play on.
The user group has changed, the LAND hasn't. As being one of this bigger rigs, I ended up making the decision that it made a hell of a lot more sense for me to change and shrink my rig than to try and force an inanimate object through a regulation burdened government agency to change.
Why spend my time fighting to try and get something I likely won't ever get. If I enjoy the sport, not my rig, but the sport, It's wiser to just adjust the rig, fit the larger population of 33 to maybe 35" tires, and enjoy life more.
Not likely.
Look at the maps. They refer to track width on the 86" wheelbase rigs as being 66" wide for the purple trail. The other trails with longer wheelbases have a wider track width.
You are sooooo right those little rigs neverrrr used reiter at all
So again Horus I suppose you would have rather seen the 311 closed to everybody instead of doing what the forest service required in order to keep the trail open :eeek:
Yes. It would have been awesome to see the FS try to close the 311. Losing Brakeline Hill would have been a bummer. We could have fought to regain trail mileage elsewhere in the park. Maybe a certain bootleg trail some speak of could have been rendered legal in trade for the now road-like 311, much the way Elbe gained the once bootleg Sunrise trail.
As far as who or what wheeled Reiter I can only vouch for what I saw in the last two or three years I knew the place before it closed. Once I had discovered Reiter I was sold. Reiter was my #1 place for the two years leading up the the first closures. I have no idea what happened in the decades before.
When the announcement was made about the closure of Izzy, BYS, SOL, etc, I took the rest of the week off and camped/wheeled for five days. From that weekend on I missed only two weekends until it closed entirely! We're talking six weekends in a row as an average here. I worked the place hard and I made ALOT of friends out there during that time. ALOT of friends who's opinions differed greatly from those of the internet.
Sure, there were the occasional groups of "Evans style" Jeeps. Most of the time they were under the powerlines, in the tree maze area or running Sac Up. I was usually, um, elsewhere with like minded wheelers.
I made almost every RTW work party before it closed. I still go to them when I can and have walked most of the trails on these maps in question. Old Reiter by nature offers the kind of terrain a modern off road vehicle can be operated properly on. Reiter has so much of what you cannot find in any other ORV area in Washington. That's all there is to it. I DO NOT see the geology in place on any of the trails I have hiked. Not near enough naturally exposed rock.
When Reiter was closed wheelers from the moderately advanced to the extreme lost everything. We were told we would have a park of at least similar caliber opened up in a year or two. That has not happened. Here we are now replacing the Out Mall with Evans like trails. Yes, we can haul big rocks in but we should not have to. Nature provided us with everything we needed.
If we lose a world class ORV area to gain another Evans we have lost. That's all I'm getting at.
Less than 10%
I fixed this statement for you :fawkdancesmiley:
Typos happen. As these are found please point where they are on the documents for that they can get corrected. If you would like, please PM or E mail me which document, page number and area on the page. That way the problem can get corrected or explained
Or just post it up here for all know where you are talking about
The_Shocker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2009
- Messages
- 566
10" Deep rock surfaced trails with obstacles brought into the trails..... THAT is the "New Reiter" reality. Am I wrong Chuck?
The way I see it. People are trying to find SW US rock crawling in the PNW closer to their back yard (at least closer than funny, moon, and a couple other spots) where the DNR or FS doesn't want it happening.
For a long time there was an illegal/bootleg area that was known and largely ignored (until things blew) up that allowed people with rigs built more for rock crawling and less for trail running, to play. When the area became a problem, the DNR (and state parks to some degree) came in and officially shut the already closed area, back down. The fact that they have offered what they have and move as fast as they have, is a big thing in and of itself. You can't lose a "world class ORV area" if it was never an ORV area to begin with.
The way I see it, people built their rigs for a terrain that is very common in one area of this country but not here and aren't happy because they don't have much to play on.
In an attempt to satisfy that crowd, "we" go out and BUILD trail, play areas, or obstacles to better suit them, but holy crap, not even that is good enough.
I'm going to ask this and come off as a total ass doing so, but it needs to be said. Got kids? What do YOU tell them if they aren't happy with what you have or can provide them, or that they aren't happy with your house rules.
For a long time there was an illegal/bootleg area that was known and largely ignored (until things blew) up that allowed people with rigs built more for rock crawling and less for trail running, to play. When the area became a problem, the DNR (and state parks to some degree) came in and officially shut the already closed area, back down. The fact that they have offered what they have and move as fast as they have, is a big thing in and of itself. You can't lose a "world class ORV area" if it was never an ORV area to begin with.
The way I see it, people built their rigs for a terrain that is very common in one area of this country but not here and aren't happy because they don't have much to play on.
In an attempt to satisfy that crowd, "we" go out and BUILD trail, play areas, or obstacles to better suit them, but holy crap, not even that is good enough.
I'm going to ask this and come off as a total ass doing so, but it needs to be said. Got kids? What do YOU tell them if they aren't happy with what you have or can provide them, or that they aren't happy with your house rules.
dirk
Well-Known Member
That is your opinion...not every wheeler feels the same way as you do.
Agreed...another basic trail system will not satisfy the need that is clearly there.
That is kinda what I am seeing...the question I have is how big will the obstacles be? Will some of them be worthy of what Old Reiter offered? Will anything ever built in the New Reiter even remotely resemble the Outlet Mall?
So, you speak for the DNR & FS? Not trying to pick a fight, but all I see is you sharing your opinion again.
I would tell the kids to stand up & fight for what they believe in. Someone else will not do the work for you.
The problem I see is that all the wheelers Horus met on the trails at Old Reiter represent a significant user group that needs to stand up & be heard. They should take every opportunity to tell the DNR/FS exactly what they want in a trail. If they don't, then we will be stuck with another bland trail system that will only satisfy most wheelers...dispersed recreation is what seems to happen when you don't build what folks want.
YES
You have the specs of what we can do, now do the math to see what it is
Like I said. there is only 1 trail that we can't reproduce. All it is, is dirt and rocks. It is how we orgonize it, that makes them fun
there is almost nothing on
BYS
SOL
TOD
OM
Ryno
Cable
Izzy
that we cant build
Sure its my opinion, and I could have kept my rig bigger but I had a choice. Spend most of my time fighting for places to play better suited for bigger rigs, or spending most of my time playing.
The government agencies haven't changed, they've largely supported mildly built 4x4's for DECADES. Other than potentially flat out losing land, this isn't changing any time soon.
So instead of fighting to keep the land we have, get more, and get "better", I'm just fighting to keep what we got.
I don't speak for them, but it's not my opinion either. Go find LEGAL ORV space, with naturally occuring land suitable for fully entertaining rock buggies on DNR land. Not counting an obstacle here or there, I don't know of any. Now, how about the forest service on this side of the mountains... I don't know of any there either, but please tell me where I'm wrong.
The space we did have (illegally) is shut down by the DNR, and what they are proposing is build it.
What does that tell you? That tells me they support it, but only under their conditions and naturally, those areas don't exist right now.
Someone else will not do the work for you... Yet you want to just tell the DNR/FS what you want in a trail and for the most part it should magically happen?
How about step up, go hiking, rent a helicopter, whatever, find an area that suits what you are looking for without causing environmental issues and start a campaign to get that area opened up. I'll be honest, of the "newer" generation, I have seen VERY FEW be willing to put that kind of time in for what they want knowing they may never get it. I'll be honest, it could be 10 years before you win, if you win.
Go back to Pokey's generation and I see a lot more of them fighting for land to wheel, and even winning here or there. Of course, they are only interested in building for mildly built rigs, it's what they have.
that is what landscapers do :awesomework:
Concept
Vision
Build
the problem, most people don't have vision
dirk
Well-Known Member
I know it can be reproduced, but is the DNR listening? Are they going to support building something that will satisfy the wheelers Horus met at Old Reiter?
I fear that the DNR will wuss out & take forever to build some watered down version of what is needed. Which will piss people off & discourage them from participating in the process any further.
I see Reiter as DNR's chance to prove that they are paying attention & listening to what we want
I know it can be reproduced, but is the DNR listening? Are they going to support building something that will satisfy the wheelers Horus met at Old Reiter?
I fear that the DNR will wuss out & take forever to build some watered down version of what is needed. Which will piss people off & discourage them from participating in the process any further.
I see Reiter as DNR's chance to prove that they are paying attention & listening to what we want
This is why I get so involved. To protect what Reiter was. I wasn't going to get the old Reiter back, but at least we have the oppertunity to go foward from here with the ability for kick ass trails. I don't think they are going to back off the specs. It is up to us to hold them to the engineered, signed specs
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