Evans Creek off topic **** swinging thread

[Ty.]

The thing you have to understand is that majority rules... And most of the wheelers are building or for some buying better built rigs.. and want a challenge for them.. People who havent moved up with the times cant frown on those who have....Ur jeep is a small short wheel base rig.... Everyone now is building longwheel base linked buggy like rigs... Or something close to that..

Its simply moving up with the times.... I think ur still back in the 70s...

Yes, this^^^^^ Really Pokey even small Jeeps like ours need more of a challenge than Evans Creek is in its current condition, and it is just getting easier. It seems like the F.S. is trying to make wheeling something that it is not, and that is something for everyone.. It's not supposed to be for everyone. I'm still holding out hope in the DNR, and possible private parks. For that reason, I'm still gonna build my buggy.

 

[JAWS]

Casey, the people that you run with, are building these bigger, buggy type rigs but that's not everyone, nor is it even the majority. I agree with you that a LOT more people over the past few years have built these types of rigs and the technical advances in the field have not only allowed but accelerated that movement. Reality is, looking at the over all, Joe Wheeler segment of the market, they are still much smaller and less built than the crowd that you like to wheel with.

I've made this point many times before, but it comes up again. The PNW4WDA membership is not representative of Joe Wheeler. Internet polls all over the place show median tire sizes in the 36-38" range on today's rigs. That same poll in the PNW4WDA is probably in the 33-35" size (making an educated guess, I'm not aware of the results of that poll). You can put 33-35" tires on most off road vehicles with only moderate modifications, not true of 36-38" tires. The PNW4WDA is going to support the needs of their membership (Pokey and others have stated this over and over), and that is understandable, yet unfortunate.

Casey, (and many others) keep up the good work at Elbe. I hope my work schedule will calm down soon so that I can get back into the game again. Even my DAUGHTER is getting after me to get out wheeling again (haven't been out since April).

PNW poll stats dont interest me at all... I base my opion on personaly veiwing vehicels on the trails.... Anyone can get on he internet or vote for small tires... Reality is the (WHEELERS) users like big tires big rigs tons.. lots of flex front digs N hard opsticals...

PNW seems to be mostly jeep racers and old school jeeps that still wish it was 1975... To each his own...

 

[beyatch]

PNW seems to be mostly jeep racers and old school jeeps that still wish it was 1975... To each his own...

WRONG, you really have no clue :eeek:

 

[crazybluerider1]

WRONG, you really have no clue :eeek:

If we have no clue it is because PNW is being mis-represented.

We can only see what we are being shown.


What are you doing to change the perception?

 

[rokripn]

my truck has big tires

 

[JAWS]

WRONG, you really have no clue :eeek:

You must be one of the small tire.. Lets pave every thing PNW none wheelers Im speaking of....:stirpot::corn::haha:

 

[JAWS]

my truck has big tires

Well then ur wrong... N if you wheel it ur double wrong....

Busy tomarrow?:beer:

 

[beyatch]

What do I do? Lots...

I voted for the bigger width, I went to FS meetings, I try to wheel everywhere in the NW and show support for my sport. I have picked up a ton of trash on any and every trail that I have done. I also wheel with multiple clubs to meet different people. I write about the "goings on" that get published and try to keep a positive spin for this often frowned upon sport.


I also race and support PNW racing, many of those people also use trails.
We are not all stuck in the 70's and just race, there is a great representation of all ages and genders. To generalize like that is just ignorance

It's not "what have you done", it's really about "what can I do"

 

[JAWS]

What do I do? Lots...

I voted for the bigger width, I went to FS meetings, I try to wheel everywhere in the NW and show support for my sport. I have picked up a ton of trash on any and every trail that I have done. I also wheel with multiple clubs to meet different people. I write about the "goings on" that get published and try to keep a positive spin for this often frowned upon sport.


I also race and support PNW racing, many of those people also use trails.
We are not all stuck in the 70's and just race, there is a great representation of all ages and genders. To generalize like that is just ignorance

It's not "what have you done", it's really about "what can I do"

Do you want a cookie? Very inpressive resume.. So do you feel at trails should be easy or passable to smaller rigs?

 

[crash2]

big tires/small tires bla bla flippin bla. Bottom line there is plenty of play areas for smaller rigs---thats fact. There is not enough places for biggter tires/challenges--fact.
There is not enough areas for us to use--fact.

So lets sit here and just beat up on each other :rolleyes: when we can work together...

Get involved........

 

[JAWS]

big tires/small tires bla bla flippin bla. Bottom line there is plenty of play areas for smaller rigs---thats fact. There is not enough places for biggter tires/challenges--fact.
There is not enough areas for us to use--fact.

So lets sit here and just beat up on each other :rolleyes: when we can work together...

Get involved........

Im dont wanta beat up anybody...
I think the wheeling comunity takes all types to work..
But i would like to see true (HARD CORE) trails.. That none capable rigs or unskilled drivers need to stay off of...

 

[Corey Y]

I am not a PNW4WDA member but I do attend some meetings. There seems to be a seperation between their members too. From my point of view it seems like its the "older crowd" vs. the "younger crowd". During the meeting where Evans Creek restrictions were discussed, one long time member left because he couldnt believe the PNW4WDA would support restrictions to keep fellow members from running the trails.
They still have quite a few clubs that do alot of trail runs and not just jeep racing. Lately, since there are fewer places to have jeep races, members are starting to get back into buiding trail rigs.

 

[JAWS]

I am not a PNW4WDA member but I do attend some meetings. There seems to be a seperation between their members too. From my point of view it seems like its the "older crowd" vs. the "younger crowd". During the meeting where Evans Creek restrictions were discussed, one long time member left because he couldnt believe the PNW4WDA would support restrictions to keep fellow members from running the trails.
They still have quite a few clubs that do alot of trail runs and not just jeep racing. Lately, since there are fewer places to have jeep races, members are starting to get back into buiding trail rigs.

Agreed. But even the PNW clubs that i know of that do wheel N not race... still (for the most part) seem to be the smaller tire.. None hard core trail type.

 

[rokripn]

my truk is hardcore

 

[crash2]

Im dont wanta beat up anybody...
I think the wheeling comunity takes all types to work..
But i would like to see true (HARD CORE) trails.. That none capable rigs or unskilled drivers need to stay off of...

:cool:

 

[Digger 5]

Imternet polls regarding tires size mean NOTHING. The Northwest is a unique area that really isn't well suited to big tires. It's not easy(or cheap) make the average NW woods Jeep accept tires much bigger than 36". With tire size comes width and it's narrow here- and I like it. I've wheeled in areas where the monster rigs rule and it's fun but that doesn't mean I want the trails widened here to do it.

As a user group we're our own worst enemy, we build the super capable rigs and then cry because there isn't any challenge. In many areas where the big rigs rule they are 'off-road only' rigs going to parks that don't require a license. It is different here and it's a good different. We have many different areas that allow different types of use. No one rig will be best everyhere. That rig doesn't exist. If you build for the one area where you primarily wheel, that may be fine but don't expect the rest of the areas to be changed just because of your choice.

Many of you will hate to hear this but we should be building for average, not superiority in one area (unless you plan to stay in that area). Average allows you do go nearly everywhere and do 'OK'. Building a super rig for one type of use usually means it will do poorly or not be allowed (by law or size) in some other areas.

 

[Jacob]

Im dont wanta beat up anybody...
I think the wheeling comunity takes all types to work..
But i would like to see true (HARD CORE) trails.. That none capable rigs or unskilled drivers need to stay off of...

Then there is going to have to be some enlightenment, agreement, and fellowship among wheelers as a WHOLE. And as a WHOLE the wheelers are going to have to present their needs to the .gov.

These big tire/ small tire, buggy/jeep disagreements have to be moved to the side and realize we are all wheelers.

I wheel a jeep on 33s. I choose this option because I do not want to deal with a tow rig, trailer, somewhere to park it all, and the payments that go with it all. I fab my parts for my little jeep, and I do all of my own work on it. My plan is to wheel my daily driver because that works best for my life. That does not make me any less of a wheeler or a fabircator than the guys with truggies/juggies/buggies. That just means that I have more "Busy Wilds" in the area to wheel because some of the "non-hardcore" trails are hard core for me and my rig.

Hell, I love watching the big boys go at it. But when they start frowning on the rest of the wheeling community because they look down their noses on us it is only going to create anamosity amongst the group. Once this happens we are no longer one voice and nothing will likely get done for anyone.

If you guys are really serious about wanting hard core trails a good point that the wheeling community could bring up is the fact that hikers/dirt bikes/ATVs all have trails dedicated to only the use of those type of ORVs. Maybe the .gov will understand that there is a need for Buggy only ORV trails.

 

[Jacob]

Imternet polls regarding tires size mean NOTHING. The Northwest is a unique area that really isn't well suited to big tires. It's not easy(or cheap) make the average NW woods Jeep accept tires much bigger than 36". With tire size comes width and it's narrow here- and I like it. I've wheeled in areas where the monster rigs rule and it's fun but that doesn't mean I want the trails widened here to do it.

As a user group we're our own worst enemy, we build the super capable rigs and then cry because there isn't any challenge. In many areas where the big rigs rule they are 'off-road only' rigs going to parks that don't require a license. It is different here and it's a good different. We have many different areas that allow different types of use. No one rig will be best everyhere. That rig doesn't exist. If you build for the one area where you primarily wheel, that may be fine but don't expect the rest of the areas to be changed just because of your choice.

Many of you will hate to hear this but we should be building for average, not superiority in one area (unless you plan to stay in that area). Average allows you do go nearly everywhere and do 'OK'. Building a super rig for one type of use usually means it will do poorly or not be allowed (by law or size) in some other areas.

:awesomework:

 

[JAWS]

Then there is going to have to be some enlightenment, agreement, and fellowship among wheelers as a WHOLE. And as a WHOLE the wheelers are going to have to present their needs to the .gov.

These big tire/ small tire, buggy/jeep disagreements have to be moved to the side and realize we are all wheelers.

I wheel a jeep on 33s. I choose this option because I do not want to deal with a tow rig, trailer, somewhere to park it all, and the payments that go with it all. I fab my parts for my little jeep, and I do all of my own work on it. My plan is to wheel my daily driver because that works best for my life. That does not make me any less of a wheeler or a fabircator than the guys with truggies/juggies/buggies. That just means that I have more "Busy Wilds" in the area to wheel because some of the "non-hardcore" trails are hard core for me and my rig.

Hell, I love watching the big boys go at it. But when they start frowning on the rest of the wheeling community because they look down their noses on us it is only going to create anamosity amongst the group. Once this happens we are no longer one voice and nothing will likely get done for anyone.

If you guys are really serious about wanting hard core trails a good point that the wheeling community could bring up is the fact that hikers/dirt bikes/ATVs all have trails dedicated to only the use of those type of ORVs. Maybe the .gov will understand that there is a need for Buggy only ORV trails.

I dont have a problem with any type of wheeler..Big or small dd or trailerd.. And im dont mean to come off that way...(if i am) All im saying is that. We have trails all over for the small rigs... I would like to see a trail for just the Hard Core rigs... No solid bypasses or "paved areas'' If you cant make it winch.. Plan and simple.

I dont have a problem with the small rigs having easy trails...So why does everyone not like the fact that i want a HARD CORE trail or two?

 

[crash2]

I dont have a problem with any type of wheeler..Big or small dd or trailerd.. And im dont mean to come off that way...(if i am) All im saying is that. We have trails all over for the small rigs... I would like to see a trail for just the Hard Core rigs... No solid bypasses or "paved areas'' If you cant make it winch.. Plan and simple.

I dont have a problem with the small rigs having easy trails...So why does everyone not like the fact that i want a HARD CORE trail or two?

Thats what I said :D

 

[JAWS]

Thats what I said :D

Well you must be more articulate... Cuz it sunk in when u said it.:beer:

I want the trails useable and fun N challenging for EVERYBODY.:awesomework:

 

[boardbysled]

I can just imagine the fit that would be thrown if there was a width restriction the other way. "trail unsafe for vehicles under 75" width and under 100" wheelbase. Vehicles above these measurements only. 37" tall tire minimum."

 

[crash2]

Well you must be more articulate... Cuz it sunk in when u said it.:beer:

I want the trails useable and fun N challenging for EVERYBODY.:awesomework:

I gotta get back down south next month and get a chance to wheel and chat with ya :awesomework:

 

[Gibby1]

I can just imagine the fit that would be thrown if there was a width restriction the other way. "trail unsafe for vehicles under 75" width and under 100" wheelbase. Vehicles above these measurements only. 37" tall tire minimum."

Yep, you may not recall the flack that I got after implementing "RECOMMENDED" vehicles for trails and starting a process to dedicate some trails at ELBE geared toward vehicles with 36" tires, dual lockers and a winch. That wasn't even a restriction!

God forbid that I took an easy trail that was so unused at the time that grass was growing on the tracks and the brush extended so far into the trail that it almost touched in the middle, and started turning it into a hard core trail.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

I can just imagine the fit that would be thrown if there was a width restriction the other way. "trail unsafe for vehicles under 75" width and under 100" wheelbase. Vehicles above these measurements only. 37" tall tire minimum."

Every time I am asked to winch some dork in a weeny rig stuck on the Raineer Vista, I ask them, "wheres your winch? wheres your lockers? wheres your big tires? Wheres your reading glasses?"

Im not so polite to asshats that slow down my day when they are being a douche on trails they dont BELONG on.

If you dont need my winch in your weeny rig then I wont hassle you.

If you need a pull, then the HARDCORE trail has overwhelmed your rig and your driving ability and you have no bizz being offended by my razzing.




(PS evans had one hardcore trail and the FS blocked it with help from hero wheelers)

hint, it starts with a 2, has a 2 in the middle and ends with a 2. :D

 

[POR]

I dont have a problem with any type of wheeler..Big or small dd or trailerd.. And im dont mean to come off that way...(if i am) All im saying is that. We have trails all over for the small rigs... I would like to see a trail for just the Hard Core rigs... No solid bypasses or "paved areas'' If you cant make it winch.. Plan and simple.

I dont have a problem with the small rigs having easy trails...So why does everyone not like the fact that i want a HARD CORE trail or two?

Cuz your gay :cheer::D:beer:

 

[POR]

Every time I am asked to winch some dork in a weeny rig stuck on the Raineer Vista, I ask them, "wheres your winch? wheres your lockers? wheres your big tires? Wheres your reading glasses?"

Im not so polite to asshats that slow down my day when they are being a douche on trails they dont BELONG on.

If you dont need my winch in your weeny rig then I wont hassle you.

If you need a pull, then the HARDCORE trail has overwhelmed your rig and your driving ability and you have no bizz being offended by my razzing.




(PS evans had one hardcore trail and the FS blocked it with help from hero wheelers)

hint, it starts with a 2, has a 2 in the middle and ends with a 2. :D

Best trail there............ uh so I hear:awesomework:

 

[Digger 5]

Thats what I said :D

Just so I'm clear, you're advocating building trails that maybe 10% of the off road community could use?

Why would the government support ANYTHING that is used so by so few people? We already suffer because our voice is so small. This type of project wouldn't get any support.

What is really needed here is a private park that could address those needs.
That said, I don't expect that the area could (or would) support such an park. Land costs are outragous (still) and most users wouldn't feel the need to go there unless the other free (nearly) areas were closed.

EDIT- I'm making the leap that by hardcore trails you're talking about 40"+ tires on purpose built buggies

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Just so I'm clear, you're advocating building trails that maybe 10% of the off road community could use?

Why would the government support ANYTHING that is used so by so few people? We already suffer because our voice is so small. This type of project wouldn't get any support.

What is really needed here is a private park that could address those needs.
That said, I don't expect that the area could (or would) support such an park. Land costs are outragous (still) and most users wouldn't feel the need to go there unless the other free (nearly) areas were closed.

EDIT- I'm making the leap that by hardcore trails you're talking about 40"+ tires on purpose built buggies

Hardcore dont mena 40+ tired buggy.

It means 36+ with LOTS of evidence of wheeling and in the trials more than twice a year and a desire to wheel your rig to its fullest potential and push your limits as a driver. (East version=difficult trail)


Users see other users and know what the users want.

Internet users THINK the rest of the world wants what they want.

Until I see you in the woods I dont give a rats ass what your E-opinion is.

 

[Digger 5]

Until I see you in the woods I dont give a rats ass what your E-opinion is.

Just because I haven't spent much time at Elbe doen't mean I don't wheel.:rolleyes: