Evans Creek off topic **** swinging thread

[CHOP SHOP]

I dont really care what folks wheel.

I care about how OFTEN you wheel.

If you wheel twice a year and ***** ALL year, **** YOU!



If you wheel ALL year and participate more than you *****, then you are a USER and you opinion counts to me.


The majority of you *****en are not what I call USERS.


Trail needs should be decided by USERS, not people that dont even use the spots.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Just because I haven't spent much time at Elbe doen't mean I don't wheel.:rolleyes:

Elbe scares you, its too dirty and the trees might dent a pretty jeep.


I had the pleasure of meeting your magazine buddies tour on your last Elbe stop. Your buddies have some big ol heads. They dissed on Elbe in their report too. "No technical wheelin, just mud and controlled throttle application" was the response I think.

You do drive the pretty polished flamed jeep right? So yes, I met you in a parking lot, not the woods.

I asked where you guys were wheeling, "Its a private run on private land" was the answer I got from the big heads. They said it three different times as tho they thought I was going to invite myself, right. :rolleyes:

I didnt want to go with you pretty paints. I was just curious where you guys were running the pretty paint rigs around eatonville, cuz Elbe would leave its mark.

I wasnt real surprised to see the coverage in JP mag! It all made sense then.

Not all were dorks, the guy with the yellow flatty with the cummins 4banger was a nice guy. Seems he was the only guy with elbe dirt on his JEEP in the mag coverage.


So is the guy you brought out in the 40+ tired tube framed bronco hardcore too? I remember you guys teaching him how to shift/drive his new bling buggy in the parking lot of the hotel.

I seen some nice hardcore rigs that day, but NO hardcore drivers. Sorry. :booo:

 

[crash2]

Just so I'm clear, you're advocating building trails that maybe 10% of the off road community could use?

Why would the government support ANYTHING that is used so by so few people? We already suffer because our voice is so small. This type of project wouldn't get any support.

What is really needed here is a private park that could address those needs.
That said, I don't expect that the area could (or would) support such an park. Land costs are outragous (still) and most users wouldn't feel the need to go there unless the other free (nearly) areas were closed.

EDIT- I'm making the leap that by hardcore trails you're talking about 40"+ tires on purpose built buggies

No--I am advocating getting involved.. And yes I am advocating to have a few trails that are extreem. 90% of whats out there already can be done easily on 33's--do we need more?

The sport has progressed to where we need those hard trails.

There should be something out there for all of us.

 

[crash2]

Elbe scares you, its too dirty and the trees might dent a pretty jeep.


I had the pleasure of meeting your magazine buddies tour on your last Elbe stop. Your buddies have some big ol heads. They dissed on Elbe in their report too. "No technical wheelin, just mud and controlled throttle application" was the response I think.

You do drive the pretty polished flamed jeep right? So yes, I met you in a parking lot, not the woods.

I asked where you guys were wheeling, "Its a private run on private land" was the answer I got from the big heads. They said it three different times as tho they thought I was going to invite myself, right. :rolleyes:

I didnt want to go with you pretty paints. I was just curious where you guys were running the pretty paint rigs around eatonville, cuz Elbe would leave its mark.

I wasnt real surprised to see the coverage in JP mag! It all made sense then.

Not all were dorks, the guy with the yellow flatty with the cummins 4banger was a nice guy. Seems he was the only guy with elbe dirt on his JEEP in the mag coverage.


So is the guy you brought out in the 40+ tired tube framed bronco hardcore too? I remember you guys teaching him how to shift/drive his new bling buggy in the parking lot of the hotel.

I seen some nice hardcore rigs that day, but NO hardcore drivers. Sorry. :booo:

What--you mean there is more than mud at elbe :haha:

Your ****tin me :haha:

 

[whatthe?]

Imternet polls regarding tires size mean NOTHING. The Northwest is a unique area that really isn't well suited to big tires. It's not easy(or cheap) make the average NW woods Jeep accept tires much bigger than 36". With tire size comes width and it's narrow here- and I like it. I've wheeled in areas where the monster rigs rule and it's fun but that doesn't mean I want the trails widened here to do it.

As a user group we're our own worst enemy, we build the super capable rigs and then cry because there isn't any challenge. In many areas where the big rigs rule they are 'off-road only' rigs going to parks that don't require a license. It is different here and it's a good different. We have many different areas that allow different types of use. No one rig will be best everyhere. That rig doesn't exist. If you build for the one area where you primarily wheel, that may be fine but don't expect the rest of the areas to be changed just because of your choice.

Many of you will hate to hear this but we should be building for average, not superiority in one area (unless you plan to stay in that area). Average allows you do go nearly everywhere and do 'OK'. Building a super rig for one type of use usually means it will do poorly or not be allowed (by law or size) in some other areas.

The NW isn't well suited to bigger tires? :eeek: Are you nuts? I have never been wheeling and thought "You know what would help, smaller tires". No one rig is superior in every situation but I'd bet rig with f/r locked, big tired with flexy suspension and good gearing would always do better than no lockers, no flex on 33's rig. If you want to build an average rig there are already enough trails and mall parking lots for you. We need hard trails.

 

[JAWS]

What--you mean there is more than mud at elbe :haha:

Your ****tin me :haha:

I seen some logs too.....:fawkdancesmiley::haha:

 

[crash2]

I seen some logs too.....:fawkdancesmiley::haha:

Those weren't logs--they were lost hikers :fawkdancesmiley:

 

[Digger 5]

No--I am advocating getting involved.. And yes I am advocating to have a few trails that are extreem. 90% of whats out there already can be done easily on 33's--do we need more?

The sport has progressed to where we need those hard trails.

There should be something out there for all of us.

I see your point and I agree, to a point. What you can cover today in 2 wheel drive, you may not be able to do at all in the rain. Is that trail a 1 or a 10? Joop's vid of Anarchy (in the rain), would that be considered
'extreme'? People have said that Rimrock isn't extreme. I think many would argue that point. It depends on where you are and when you're there.

Personally, I'd like us have a few trails that aren't maintained at all (except maybe the basics). Given the current political landscape I don't think that will happen. Even if it did happen, you'd have a hard time keeping it 'extreme' as there's always some dumbass that gets in trouble and messes it up for the rest of us.

As for true 'extreme' available now, the rocks at Naches are still a good option. People are finding more and more lines all the time.

 

[Digger 5]

The NW isn't well suited to bigger tires?

I guess it depends on your version of 'big'. Bigger tires need wider axles which mean wider trails. In case you haven't noticed, we have trees here. There are many areas that wide rigs don't fit (especially on the east side).

Build the rig to fit the trail, not the trail to fit the rig.

 

[whatthe?]

I guess it depends on your version of 'big'. Bigger tires need wider axles which mean wider trails. In case you haven't noticed, we have trees here. There are many areas that wide rigs don't fit (especially on the east side).

Build the rig to fit the trail, not the trail to fit the rig.

I live on the Ellensburg, I know what the trails are like on the east side. Full width axled rigs do just fine over here and I consider 39's and up "bigger". Let me fix the quote for you. Build and maintain the trails to fit the rigs. Oh, wait, they already fit full size axled rigs. So lets just make some trails more difficult.

 

[boardbysled]

Build the rig to fit the trail, not the trail to fit the rig.

Guess we better go back to 72" tall by 2" tall wooden wagon wheels then.

Or maybe some nice NDT's.

:rolleyes:

 

[Digger 5]

I live on the Ellensburg, I know what the trails are like on the east side. Full width axled rigs do just fine over here and I consider 39's and up "bigger". Let me fix the quote for you. Build and maintain the trails to fit the rigs. Oh, wait, they already fit full size axled rigs. So lets just make some trails more difficult.

I agree to disagree.:awesomework:

 

[Mark m.]

I dont really care what folks wheel.

I care about how OFTEN you wheel.

If you wheel twice a year and ***** ALL year, **** YOU!



If you wheel ALL year and participate more than you *****, then you are a USER and you opinion counts to me.


The majority of you *****en are not what I call USERS.


Trail needs should be decided by USERS, not people that dont even use the spots.

Right on Brad:awesomework:

 

[Digger 5]

Guess we better go back to 72" tall by 2" tall wooden wagon wheels then.

Or maybe some nice NDT's.

:rolleyes:

If that works for you...ok.

So you don't think it's appropriate to build a rig based on the areas where you wheel?

 

[ShaftyVonHelmet]

I would like to start a big tire/full width axle no questions asked buy back program. Bring your earth ripping **** to my foundry, receive 100 frogskins and a pnw4wda jeep sticker printed on monster energy green virgin elephant foreskin. My pm box is waiting...

 

[super samurai]

If that works for you...ok.

So you don't think it's appropriate to build a rig based on the areas where you wheel?

i agree with this, i spent alot of money and time to build my rigs for the trails i wheel, and now i will be marginal to fit my sammy through those gate keepers, it will fit but not with room to spare. this is one reason why i only go to evans about once or twice a year anymore due to the f.s. bull**** and jumping through their hoops!
the trails there are only fun during the times it is closed anyways!!
guess my buggy will end up sitting on 33's all terrains?
at least it will still be a cool guy buggy.
or i will just still wheel all my secret spots?:awesomework:

 

[whatthe?]

If that works for you...ok.

So you don't think it's appropriate to build a rig based on the areas where you wheel?

yeah, build a rig for what you want to wheel but as the rigs get better some trails can be made more difficult. With your reasoning I-90 would never be built. Should all trails just be made into gravel road so less capable rigs and inexperienced drivers can handle them? We'd get more users in our group, why should anyone be left out? I wheel a smart car.

 

[Horus]

I'd just like to clarify something here. It seems an attitude taken is that big tire guys overbuilt our rigs for Washington trails. Now we want harder trails for our hardercore rigs. This is incorrect.

The big tire guys are mad because hardcore trails we had are disappearing and continue to do so at exponentially higher rate. Two years ago we had trails that flat out required rock buggys. Well built rock buggys at that. Then they closed the Reiter Foothills to ORV recreation and displaced a huge amount of very well built rigs. We had trails that made the most challenging offerings now found at Evans, Tahuya, even Elbe look like the mall parking lot. South end guys, I love the Busy, I really do but the Busy had nothing on BYS or SOL.

We are not *****ing because we want what we never had. We are mad because we want back what we used to have and built our rigs to fit on.

And X1000 on everything Brad said. I only care about the opinions of those people I see at the trails every weekend. Real wheelers get out and do it on a regular basis. When I have a rig to wheel I am out three weekends a month on average. Most trips are Friday afternoon until terminally broke or Sunday morning. I just brought home my new buggy yesterday. I will be returning to my regular wheelin pattern in two weeks. Looking forward to being a real wheeler again.

 

[TreeClimber]

Elbe scares you, its too dirty and the trees might dent a pretty jeep.

I had the pleasure of meeting your magazine buddies tour on your last Elbe stop. Your buddies have some big ol heads. They dissed on Elbe in their report too. "No technical wheelin, just mud and controlled throttle application" was the response I think.

You do drive the pretty polished flamed jeep right? So yes, I met you in a parking lot, not the woods.

I asked where you guys were wheeling, "Its a private run on private land" was the answer I got from the big heads. They said it three different times as tho they thought I was going to invite myself, right. :rolleyes:

I didnt want to go with you pretty paints. I was just curious where you guys were running the pretty paint rigs around eatonville, cuz Elbe would leave its mark.

I wasnt real surprised to see the coverage in JP mag! It all made sense then.

Not all were dorks, the guy with the yellow flatty with the cummins 4banger was a nice guy. Seems he was the only guy with elbe dirt on his JEEP in the mag coverage.

So is the guy you brought out in the 40+ tired tube framed bronco hardcore too? I remember you guys teaching him how to shift/drive his new bling buggy in the parking lot of the hotel.

I seen some nice hardcore rigs that day, but NO hardcore drivers. Sorry. :booo:

Thanks. I was there driving too. Had a beat up YJ on 37s. Still wheel that rig today, although I did paint the dents after barrell rolling at Rimrock.

But I guess my opinion doesn't count anymore, I'm just a web-wheeler with too much work.

 

[Digger 5]

I see your point but you're a bit off track.

In my view trails have changed both ways, better and worse. Some of the trails we ran in the 90's are much more dug out and harder today (Kaner as an example). Others are easier. I agree, I don't like seeing the FS come in a make changes to the trails. At the same time I don't like seeing people shoehorn their rigs into trails that can't handle them. Some trails can handle big rigs, other can't. Get over it.

Much of what we're seeing from the various agencies is a result of our previous actions- users going off trail, tearing **** up, damaging property, etc. While these actions were usually caused a very few individuals, the resulting backlash from the agencies has been huge. We've got to stop making ourselves the target.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Thanks. I was there driving too. Had a beat up YJ on 37s. Still wheel that rig today, although I did paint the dents after barrell rolling at Rimrock.

But I guess my opinion doesn't count anymore, I'm just a web-wheeler with too much work.

I only remember the actions that stood out that day to a neighborhood kid who thought you guys were cool.

The first time I met you Tony you were at a meeting about Elbe restrictions. While I do appreciate your support/concern about Elbe, I wish you could allow some time someday to enjoy our trials and meet on more recreational terms.

Our trail system has much more to offer than drama. :beer:

 

[crash2]

Our trail system has much more to offer than drama. :beer:

Ya---dumb mud :fawkdancesmiley:

 

[TreeClimber]

Ya---dumb mud :fawkdancesmiley:

dumb mud speeled backwards is dumb mud

 

[CHOP SHOP]

dumb mud speeled backwards is dumb mud

fawk yer a fart smellar! :redneck:

 

[zukkev]

dumb mud speeled backwards is dumb mud

:haha: Never noticed that! :redneck:

 

[pokey]

The thing you have to understand is that majority rules... And most of the wheelers are building or for some buying better built rigs.. and want a challenge for them.. People who havent moved up with the times cant frown on those who have....Ur jeep is a small short wheel base rig.... Everyone now is building longwheel base linked buggy like rigs... Or something close to that..

Its simply moving up with the times.... I think ur still back in the 70s...

Were just going to have to agree to disagree on just who the majority is Casey. :awesomework:

 

[pokey]

Yes, this^^^^^ Really Pokey even small Jeeps like ours need more of a challenge than Evans Creek is in its current condition, and it is just getting easier. It seems like the F.S. is trying to make wheeling something that it is not, and that is something for everyone.. It's not supposed to be for everyone. I'm still holding out hope in the DNR, and possible private parks. For that reason, I'm still gonna build my buggy.

Ty, as a equiptment operator yourself you have a full understanding that sometimes you have to clear a way for your machine to get through to get to the work. This is whats happening at Evans. They are getting the small machine through the trails to block off the ILLEGAL trails and bypasses that they are required by law to do. The trails will revert and change with use just like they always have in the past. Evans was never meant to be a "hard core" place and probably never will be. Its still better than nothing which is what we get if we do nothing to help the FS comply with the rules and laws that they have to.

 

[Jaydog]

Ty, as a equiptment operator yourself you have a full understanding that sometimes you have to clear a way for your machine to get through to get to the work. This is whats happening at Evans. They are getting the small machine through the trails to block off the ILLEGAL trails and bypasses that they are required by law to do.

I don't buy that for a minute, trees are the only thing that need to be cleared if there isn't enough room to squeeze by, there aren't any obsticles at Evans that could slow any equipment down, I've taken my excavator through the busy and the swamp trail :redneck:

Besides, if that were the case, then they could put the trail back the way it was on their way back out....not buying it.

 

[pokey]

I don't buy that for a minute, trees are the only thing that need to be cleared if there isn't enough room to squeeze by, there aren't any obsticles at Evans that could slow any equipment down, I've taken my excavator through the busy and the swamp trail :redneck:

Besides, if that were the case, then they could put the trail back the way it was on their way back out....not buying it.

I have a feeling your a much better operator then the one they have.

 

[ain'tstuckjustresting]

Hell even Casey & Kevin negotiated Nancy's mini w/o issue. Operators they are not!