What is freedom?

[cisco]

I'm curious what people think freedom is. Sometimes I wonder if we really even know. We are all directed this way and that by legislation, news stories, marketing, family, peers etc.

My daughter is almost 5 and over the last couple years we have read and re read the Laura Ingalls Wilder books (little house on the prairie series). For those who don't know, she chronicles her own personal history of being a pioneer / homesteader during a brief moment in our history when a person could live by their own means not subject to much legislation, bureaucracy, society etc.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Get back to work, peasant!

 

[cisco]

Get back to work, peasant!

LOL! Sounds like you agree that the feudal system is alive and well.

 

[Poohbair]

Freedom is what we had be for politics took over.

 

[crash2]

Not the politics--the lawyers...

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Not the politics--the lawyers...

Most politicians ARE lawyers!

 

[cisco]

Which laws in particular are the most oppressive?

When I go places where there are fewer laws it definitely feels more free. Those places also don't seem to function at the same level of infrastructure, commerce etc as the US.

When visiting Baja a couple Mexican guys doubling on a dirt bike, passed me while riding a wheelie at 50 down the highway with no helmets and flip flops. I'm pretty sure no law enforcement down there would write them a ticket.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Which laws in particular are the most oppressive?

There is no simple answer to this question.

 

[TreeClimber]

There is no simple answer to this question.

Taxation.

 

[toyodaaddict]

Being required to take a certified class, permanently waive HIPPA rights and be subject to yearly background checks forever, in order to purchase a hand gun or semi auto rifle is not freedom.

Being RED FLAGGED and having your firearms confiscated without being charged with a crime and without due processes, is not freedom. This seems to be a regular thing now.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Having your public lands gated and then given back to you in prescribed doses is not freedom.

 

[TrikeKid]

Taxation.

Taxation is definitely the one that reaches into every little part of your life. I have a piece of property in Montana that I own outright, except for you know if I neglect to flip Missoula county their taxes every year, then they take and sell "my" property.

 

[POR]

Having your public lands gated and then given back to you in prescribed doses is not freedom.

Don't forget all the voluntary hours of maintaining "your" land so you can earn a free pass to access "your" land.. all so trees can be harvested easier lol

 

[POR]

Taxation.

"Taxington"

 

[crash2]

Taxation.

I don't agree here because economic levels can define what you can/can't do.


Now are we over taxed--**** yes...

 

[crash2]

Don't forget all the voluntary hours of maintaining "your" land so you can earn a free pass to access "your" land.. all so trees can be harvested easier lol

I don't do it for a free pass--I do it so the quality of what we have stays. As for them being able to get tree's "easier" I disagree because they simply build roads to gain access to what is needed.

 

[TreeClimber]

Cisco asked, what was the MOST oppressive.
Choppy replied, there is no easy answer.
I countered, the easy answer is Taxes.

With Taxes, whether they be Property Taxes, Income Taxes, Sales Taxes, Use Taxes, B&O Taxes doesn't matter. Whether it's Taxes in 1776 on Tea, causing the Revolutionary War, or Taxes in 2020 paying for Bernie's Free Stuff doesn't matter.

The whole concept of Taxation, means that your individual work is no longer your own. You must now Share your efforts with another, against your will.

And that truly is the easiest answer as to the most oppressive laws that limit freedom. We allow it to happen as having a peaceful society is worth it to most of us. Roads, Police, Fire Dept., a Military Force providing international security, is all paid for by you and I, by the simple word, Taxes.

 

[crash2]

I can only see taxes as being oppressive to those who don't have allot of $$. Those with $$ don't care about taxes and do as they want...

 

[CHOP SHOP]

I can only see taxes as being oppressive to those who don't have allot of $$. Those with $$ don't care about taxes and do as they want...

Those who don't have allot of money hardly pay any taxes.

Get some money and assets and see how much MORE you care bout taxes.


Taxes affect the freedom to choose for some consumers. I am reluctant to buy the house and property I WANT because the taxes are so high.

I put TONS of thought into what I buy because of use tax, sales tax, property tax, (those of you in the RTA) tabs, Etc.

So taxes affect my freedom of CHOICE as a consumer.

But oppression is typically associated with lifestyle/actions/activity freedoms.


The OPs question is a very loaded one that has MANY answers and many facets.

 

[cisco]

One aspect of the property tax one that really chaps me is this very scenario that I have personal experience with. I bought a run down property in a semi rundown area. I busted my ass to fix it up and intern improved the neighborhood. The city came along and took a look and said "Wow! This looks great, you are now going to have to pay more in taxes." WTF.

Chopy, I deleted my FB account and posted a wide open question on a superior platform to get some dialogue going. I cant stand the mindless reposting of propaganda and idiot memes on social media. I hope more people follow suit deleting FB accounts and come back to non profit community boards where every click isn't fed back into corporate marketing machines.

 

[crash2]

Those who don't have allot of money hardly pay any taxes.

Get some money and assets and see how much MORE you care bout taxes.


Taxes affect the freedom to choose for some consumers. I am reluctant to buy the house and property I WANT because the taxes are so high.

I put TONS of thought into what I buy because of use tax, sales tax, property tax, (those of you in the RTA) tabs, Etc.

So taxes affect my freedom of CHOICE as a consumer.

But oppression is typically associated with lifestyle/actions/activity freedoms.


The OPs question is a very loaded one that has MANY answers and many facets.

I see what your saying brad but here is how I look at it. Somebody who has lots of $$ is less inclined to not do something in fear of taxes where somebody who has allot less is going to look at taxes and be less inclined to do so.



Like in your case compared to somebody who has lots of expendable $$ won't care about the tax side of it...


Man those folks who are in the RTA are getting RAPED!

 

[CHOP SHOP]

One aspect of the property tax one that really chaps me is this very scenario that I have personal experience with. I bought a run down property in a semi rundown area. I busted my ass to fix it up and intern improved the neighborhood. The city came along and took a look and said "Wow! This looks great, you are now going to have to pay more in taxes." WTF.

Chopy, I deleted my FB account and posted a wide open question on a superior platform to get some dialogue going. I cant stand the mindless reposting of propaganda and idiot memes on social media. I hope more people follow suit deleting FB accounts and come back to non profit community boards where every click isn't fed back into corporate marketing machines.

Social media is a double edged sword.
Our board here is social media too.

Places like the FB and twitter put to many incompatible folks together. If you disagree with someone your likely to get grilled by a million ignorant people.

On the forum boards you are typically conversing with other people who have similar skill sets, values, opinions and qualities. You can disagree with someone here and still enjoy a trail ride or a beer with them and it wont turn violent!!

I like a healthy conversation and I love to banter with someone that you disagree with. If they are not a retard and have a halfa brain, you may learn something from each other. Even if you still choose not to agree. You just may see another view to ponder.

I got on IG years ago because of the Canadians and their hate for FB. It was perfect, I could share my pics with a small description and avoid the BS and garbage associated with social media followers.

Now IG is owned by FB and I feel Ive been ****ed. A platform I used specifically because is was not FB is now FB.

You just cant win the internet until you "UNPLUG".

 

[CHOP SHOP]

This makes me think of another "freedom"!

I work with lots of older VERY SUCCESSFUL guys in the forestry trade.

Most are "unplugged". NO smart phones, no email, no computer, etc.

Ill mention something I read on the internet and their response is usually, "oh, more **** of that internets"!


They have no interest, no influence, and no attachment. Thats a HUGE freedom in itself.

 

[toyodaaddict]

This makes me think of another "freedom"!

I work with lots of older VERY SUCCESSFUL guys in the forestry trade.

Most are "unplugged". NO smart phones, no email, no computer, etc.

Ill mention something I read on the internet and their response is usually, "oh, more **** of that internets"!


They have no interest, no influence, and no attachment. Thats a HUGE freedom in itself.

That does sound like a sense of freedom. But, no interest, No influence, no attachment does not sound like a successful method of maintaining freedom. For yourself or those that come after.

 

[POR]

I don't do it for a free pass--I do it so the quality of what we have stays. As for them being able to get tree's "easier" I disagree because they simply build roads to gain access to what is needed.

Our regional trails are mostly made of old skidder/fire accrss roads.. they still use our trails to access some of their logging plots, while they do punch new roads they also use other means of access its cheaper.. i understand why you volenteer to your local ohv area, I'm not talking down your efforts there.. im for free market if im gonna pay for something then i want some kinda gain for me.. im sorry i don't aggree on paying to access public land.. id rather pay a private ohv park so that most monies collected will go back into said park.. if dnr can go all around and buy land in downtown Olympia areas then they dont need grants or gate collection fees in my eyes.