Ls cooling

[redneckengineered]

I will add that speaking to ron davis , prw, and flowkooler . All asked if I was running radiator in rear of buggy. And all highly recommended to run a higher flow water pump for rear mount set ups. Front mount they said not 100 necessary unless you have a bunch of stuff blocking cooling system. All 3 companies had very similar questions and recommendations.

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They need to stick to building radiators.

 

[i_sent_it]

I will add that speaking to ron davis , prw, and flowkooler . All asked if I was running radiator in rear of buggy. And all highly recommended to run a higher flow water pump for rear mount set ups. Front mount they said not 100 necessary unless you have a bunch of stuff blocking cooling system. All 3 companies had very similar questions and recommendations.

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They need to stick to building radiators.

So you think a upgraded water pump is needed?

 

[cbrjeeper]

Well all three of those companies are in California and work with some of the biggest race teams out west that mostly run radiator set ups in the back. To me it makes sense that the coolant has to travel alot further. A higher flow definitely cant hurt. I know alot of us that run stock pumps and, haven't had alot of issues. But a better well made pump imo is worth the better cooling capacity/capability.

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[wizzo]

Stock water pump has worked just fine for me for 8+ years. My opinion is buy a quality radiator and you'll be just fine.

If you went to a higher flow water pump, what would you do about thermostat? That would be a restriction right? Did they have a suggestion for addressing that? Just wondering.

 

[cbrjeeper]

Prw said no high flow stat needed as they still have cross over tube.
Flowkooler said high flow stat needed . They do not have cross over tubes.
Ron davis says they run meizer pumps$$$ and I did not ask about stat.

Alot of Products coming to the market over last few years that alot of other industries that build ls stuff are using hi flow pumps. All the performance part sites offer a high flow pump of some sort. I dont get to technical with explaining but , with the world wide interweb offering days of literature of opinions. I called manufacturers and some of the shops/sites that sell these products and 100% of them use and like them. Yes they are trying to sell product but there is some good info out and a reason some of the big builders are using them. In my opinion after a beat down you will cool quicker and you will add pressure throughout the system creating a more equal system less steam pockets and or hot spots. It may not be 100 noticeable or it may be a oh **** moment. I will let you kno my experience. I will be changing my system 100% 1 part at a time to see what is and makes the biggest difference in my buggy.

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[cbrjeeper]

My stock pump has worked decent as well over the years. They are cheaply made though. Others I mentioned are all made in USA with much better process, , castings, tolerances, and parts used.

Stock 14 bolt shafts lasted since the 80s
Broke em once and HAD to get a better set.. Mark Williams ftw... lol

Wizzo plug.. braaaap

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[redneckengineered]

I just think if I was upgrading cooling the "high flow" pump would be the absolute last thing I would do. I'm not even sure they're necessary at all in a non-full race application. I've also seen stock LS water pumps go 300k+ so not too worried about the quality. If you do go high flow do it last so you can see if it makes any difference and let us know.

My wife's buggy has a 540hp LS3, stock pump, with rear mounted 31x16 CBR and 12" fans (not the 14"s that typically come with that model) and 160 degree stat and if she had any more cooling I don't think the engine would even register on the gauge :****:

 

[redneckengineered]

I could actually be convinced that a high flow pump would be needed in a situation where you may be wanting to run bigger lines such as -20 vs -16 which is the size most run. Then you're making up for the loss of pressure due to the larger diameter lines. In my mind that would have more of an impact vs running the radiator in the rear. Interesting discussion nevertheless.

Stock 14 bolt shafts lasted since the 80s
Broke em once and HAD to get a better set.. Mark Williams ftw... lol

Wizzo plug.. braaaap

I like the way you think.

 

[cbrjeeper]

Re: Ls cooling

I'm 500ish hp. Running decent temps. Stock pump is prob 6 years old and started to leak out of the weep hole. Griffin rad has a pin hole at top of rad (repairable). 180 t stat is month old. Spal 16 fan does its job. So I'm going to change all of it. I have dual 11in spal set up coming, ron davis rad, prw high flow pump, 160 stat goin in.

TStat change first.. "tomorrow". And I'll ride it all weekend to get some info.

New Rad with current 16in fan on it next, in a few weeks .

Then change to the dual fan with new rad.

Water pump last.

I figure we need some new tech and cooling systems can be easy and then again they can be a pia. I happen to need to make some changes and I'm willing to spend, and do it. Lots of new parts out on the market for our sport since the hammers have shed a huge light on things.
New parts get designed the sport gets better and stronger we start to break less. That's how we have all gotten to these full tube chassis with ls motors. Most of us started with jeeps . Parts evolve and get better over time. We shall see !!!

I really expect in my situation with a front mount rad, the best cooling mod will be the radiator along with better fans. I dont expect to gain much cooling from pump rather than a better pressurized system and quicker cool downs possibly. But I do believe a higher flow pump would be beneficial to a rear mount set up. It's a long ways to travel. Its gotta help with a system that large to remove steem and bleed the system better over all and keep it pressurized.

But I really have no idea. I will let you know how things play out for my rig.


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[wizzo]

Report back. Thanks for the tech. Glad you're making changes one at a time to see what changes occur.

 

[cbrjeeper]

Re: Ls cooling

Very nice looking water pump from prw. Billet pulley. Bolted on rear cover.
I did a couple flushes on the ls with no tstat. It ran hotter than norm. It burped a few times. Looking forward to seeing the changes with all the changes I'm making. Talked to prw again today. Tech said.. run 20 an on all ports. sooner or later you will catch up. Call tech of any "high" flow pump company. Shawn of prw. Btw I have called 4 times and have gotten the same guy after asking for tech. Maybe only 3 people work there. Idk. But, I'm gonna ride them out. He assured me that the future is here, and you won't over cool. That's not what this pump does. I will report back after Ron Davis gets me new radiator. Witch btw. Recommend running a high flow pump. Not prw either.
Braaap. Hammer down and break some **** . So you can write some tech.

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[wizzo]

Looks nice. Would have been interesting to see what your cooling system would have done with only the radiator change first.

 

[cbrjeeper]

I'm waiting for radiator to go in before pump. Collecting parts rite now.

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[wizzo]

Ah!!! OK, Awesome!!!

 

[cbrjeeper]

I still need gears for that sexy spool and shafts.. lol maybe I'll order that today.. hah.

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[mrdrinksalil]

Ls cooling

I tore mine down for powder coat but will report back what changes the additional CFM have on temps when it gets back together.

BTW- I think I already posted this but taking the thermostat out on an LS is going to have a negative effect on cooling because coolant can then keep bypassing in the pump, back into the block and not forced out to the radiator. Not like an SBC where all coolant into the block exited the top of the manifold.


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[cbrjeeper]

New dual fan set up came in today. Real nice piece for 369 delivered. Dual spal 11in fans puts out 2700 cfm 22 3/8 x 18 1/8

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[CHASMAN9]

I dig the louvers on the rest of the shroud body, but any chance that heat might get sucked back into through them when the fans are running? Just curious.




ADMINISTRATOR

 

[cbrjeeper]

Maybe in reverse?... lol
I really don't know. I've seen some with and some with out. This one will fit my application so I went with it. Spal told me this set up should significantly lower cooling time in comparison to my single 16 in 2000cfm spal.

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[mike2.5]

Moved the temperature sensor to the passenger head today. Passenger head reads 6-12 degrees cooler.

Idle temperatures

181 Driver Head
174 Passenger Head

Getting after it temperatures

229 Driver Head
217 Passenger Head

The fans that came on my Griffin Combo 31x15.5 radiator are 12” low profile SPALs rated 1722CFM total airflow.

Going to upgrade one of the fans for now with a Maradyne M122K that should bring total airflow around 2400CFM and see how that does. The M122K should be a direct bolt in for my current shroud and flow 1548CFM each.


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I would love to know how this turns out for you as im in the same boat. Not an LS but same scenario with the same radiator.

 

[mrdrinksalil]

Update:

Upgraded the fans that came from Griffin to Maradyne M122K fans. Wheeled for two days runs 175-185 most of the time. Hottest as is got was around 205. Moved the sending unit too so that is with the sender in the passenger head which I’ve already confirmed is cooler than location in the driver head. Problem solved.

 

[zsavage81]

Anyone got a model number for the 160 deg thermostat they're using on a truck pump? Lingenfelter Performance Engineering Thermostats L310065307?

Also, anyone have experience with the CBM press-in -20an fitting for the water pump? Like this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01I5RH7EQ/?tag=hardlinecrawlers-20
I'm in the process of swapping to -20AN hoses. I've got weld on bungs i'm going to weld to the radiator and am looking at a bolt on -20 thermostat housing, so the pump is sorta the only question mark.

In Moab last year I ran hot but never actually over heated and I've been chasing a solution to prevent this ever since. On the road or when i've got even the slightest airflow it stays below 200, but when the outside temp is 90+ and there's no flow it starts creeping or if i start dogging it hard it'll creep. Adding a hood louver brought my temps down a bit, now I'm in the process of moving the trans cooler out from in front of the radiator to a separate cooler with it's own fan and I'm also adding a separate oil cooler that also has it's own fan. Between the coolers and swapping thermostats do yall think it'll solve my problem?

Some info that would probably help:
LS Motor in a TJ
Dual Mishimoto electric fans (1866 cfm each)
Griffin 1-25271-XS 31"x16" 2 row radiator
Currently an AC Delco 185 degree thermostat

 

[redneckengineered]

I don't see going to -20 making any difference. The 160 degree stat will help. Ditching the ****ty Griffin radiator and going to a CBR dual pass with Spal fans will make a world of difference. They make a 31x16 size option.

 

[Beerj]

Also, anyone have experience with the CBM press-in -20an fitting for the water pump? Like this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01I5RH7EQ/?tag=hardlinecrawlers-20

I used that -20 press in bung. Must not have been perfectly square as it cracked the neck on the pump. Even froze the fitting first. Called CBM to get their thoughts and they sent me a like new pump with a new fitting pressed in for just the cost of the fitting. I held on to the other one and after I learned tig, patched up the crack and kept it as a spare.

 

[zsavage81]

I don't see going to -20 making any difference. The 160 degree stat will help. Ditching the ****ty Griffin radiator and going to a CBR dual pass with Spal fans will make a world of difference. They make a 31x16 size option.

the -20 is more about rerouting my cooling lines and getting rid of the bull **** hose clamps that seem to always leak than it is improving water temps. Crappy thing is I bought a CBR and I think it was listed as a 31" wide unit and was actually like 31.5" or something like that and I couldn't make it fit in between the frame rails I'd already built. Seemed easier at the time to switch radiators than cut up all the work i'd just done and I thought griffin was good stuff at the time.

I don't know how much this matters, but the last time out when my water temp was like 220, i got out and touched my hand on my radiator and it was COLD. Not cool, but cold. Fans were screaming since they're just switched on and run all the time, and this struck me as weird. Also, any fear of always running in cold loop with the 160 thermostat?

PS, are you the guy Kerley was saying we're wheeling with at AOP oct 17-20? I'm wondering bc you said something about your wife's buggy and I think he mentioned it was a guy and his wife (if so, you'll see why those hoses need changed).

 

[redneckengineered]

the -20 is more about rerouting my cooling lines and getting rid of the bull **** hose clamps that seem to always leak than it is improving water temps. Crappy thing is I bought a CBR and I think it was listed as a 31" wide unit and was actually like 31.5" or something like that and I couldn't make it fit in between the frame rails I'd already built. Seemed easier at the time to switch radiators than cut up all the work i'd just done and I thought griffin was good stuff at the time.

I don't know how much this matters, but the last time out when my water temp was like 220, i got out and touched my hand on my radiator and it was COLD. Not cool, but cold. Fans were screaming since they're just switched on and run all the time, and this struck me as weird. Also, any fear of always running in cold loop with the 160 thermostat?

PS, are you the guy Kerley was saying we're wheeling with at AOP oct 17-20? I'm wondering bc you said something about your wife's buggy and I think he mentioned it was a guy and his wife (if so, you'll see why those hoses need changed).

Yep that's me. I was hoping to meet you guys and give you the grand AOP tour. But it's looking less like I'm going to make it. My buggy is not quite ready, I was hoping my wife's would be but it's not looking good there either. We built her a new rear 14 bolt and while it is coming together we still have to get it trussed and bracketed up and thrown under there. Ordering shafts for it this week but those are two weeks out.

It is strange that your radiator would be cold. You can feel mine heat and cool as the thermostat opens/closes. And I've never had the first issue with engine tuning running a 160 and I don't know of anyone else that has either. I've preached the 160 to all my friends so we all run that temp now.

 

[zsavage81]

Yep that's me. I was hoping to meet you guys and give you the grand AOP tour. But it's looking less like I'm going to make it. My buggy is not quite ready, I was hoping my wife's would be but it's not looking good there either. We built her a new rear 14 bolt and while it is coming together we still have to get it trussed and bracketed up and thrown under there. Ordering shafts for it this week but those are two weeks out.

It is strange that your radiator would be cold. You can feel mine heat and cool as the thermostat opens/closes. And I've never had the first issue with engine tuning running a 160 and I don't know of anyone else that has either. I've preached the 160 to all my friends so we all run that temp now.

Which 160 thermostat are you running? Is it the Lingenfelter i listed above? You got a truck pump?

 

[Jduck]

If the radiator is cold like that your water isn’t circulating. Either an air pocket or the water is circulating back through the block and not going to the radiator.

 

[The-Boss]

If the radiator is cold like that your water isn’t circulating. Either an air pocket or the water is circulating back through the block and not going to the radiator.

Not uncommon with a rear radiator. Happened to my buddy this past weekend. He had a air pocket due to being a little low. Quick fix.

 

[Nughuffer]

I went from a 180ish stock stat to an LS2 160F thermostat hoping to help cool my ****box down some. My avg operating temps dropped about 10F at best. I saw no noticeable improvement during a beatdown session. 215-220F is common and I've seen 230F. I'm running an LS1 vette water pump, 31" 2-row rear-mounted radiator w/ dual 16" PCM controlled fans. I saw more improvement by having my fans come on earlier for longer and running 75% water, 25% green. I highly recommend using a vac filler tool to fill the system. **** makes life much easier w/an LS & rear-mounted radiator.