Air shock / coilover / anti rock bar help question????

bobo · Dec 3, 2012

Another thing you can do to help the air shocks is put a heavier weight oil in them.

Fox's come with 5wt not sure about SAW's. Went to a 10 wt oil & increased oil volume over stock & it vastly improved the shocks performance on a heavy rig with 2.0's front and rear. Extra volume & heavier oil will make the "spring rate" increase faster as the shock compresses which will help with the body roll.

To add oil let the nitrogen out, take the shock off, remove the valve core, remove all of the oil into a clean container, measure the new oil volume required, put some 1/4" clear hose over the schrader valve, compress the shock, stick hose in oil, pull shock shaft out. Will pull oil into shock like a big syringe.

We use fork oil like you can get at any bike shop.

I would defiantly try this first. Oil is cheap and all it takes is a little time. Won't make it any worse :****:

Jeremy

TacomaJD · Dec 3, 2012

bobo said:
Another thing you can do to help the air shocks is put a heavier weight oil in them.

Fox's come with 5wt not sure about SAW's. Went to a 10 wt oil & increased oil volume over stock & it vastly improved the shocks performance on a heavy rig with 2.0's front and rear. Extra volume & heavier oil will make the "spring rate" increase faster as the shock compresses which will help with the body roll.

To add oil let the nitrogen out, take the shock off, remove the valve core, remove all of the oil into a clean container, measure the new oil volume required, put some 1/4" clear hose over the schrader valve, compress the shock, stick hose in oil, pull shock shaft out. Will pull oil into shock like a big syringe.

We use fork oil like you can get at any bike shop.

I would defiantly try this first. Oil is cheap and all it takes is a little time. Won't make it any worse :****:

Jeremy

Thank you! Great info since I'm sort of a "beginner" I don't know **** about air shocks as far as how they actually work internally. Then after refilling the shock with a thicker fork oil, air them back up with nitrogen to the desired ride height?

halcat · Dec 3, 2012

My jeep has 14 in coil overs front, 18 in air shocks in the rear with 132 in wheel base. It whipped side to side down the trail like a freakin cb antena when I first four linked it. When I power braked it it would nearly turn it self over. Closed the link bars up in the rear fixed most f it and then put anti rock bars front and rear and fixed all of it. It handles like a dream now and has stupid flex. It handles creak head on GMP like a champ, even the switch back where most will turn over it won't!

bbounds · Dec 3, 2012

Adding oil is no big deal even if you don't have much experience. I had a jeep with leafs up front air 14" air shocks in the rear. It had very bad body roll until I added more oil and put a limiting strap in the center. Just my two cents take the shocks off the rig empty them completely and make sure the same amount of oil is in both shocks. My oil was off from fox by 30cc which is a lot when dialing in air shocks. :****:

TacomaJD · Dec 3, 2012

Good info guys, thanks!

Found this on the the Youtubez, it's a shorter travel remote resi shock, but still a Fox 2.0 air shock nonetheless. Good vid to familiarize newbs like myself with the internal components of these shocks.

Rebuilding a Fox Off Road Shock.mov

bobo · Dec 4, 2012

TacomaJD said:
Thank you! Great info since I'm sort of a "beginner" I don't know **** about air shocks as far as how they actually work internally. Then after refilling the shock with a thicker fork oil, air them back up with nitrogen to the desired ride height?

Yep. After you fill them with oil put them back on the truck, fully extend the shocks, and refill with nitrogen.

Take a reading so you know the nitrogen pressure before you make any modifications. The pressure you refill them to should be the same.

Also before you add oil check with the shock manufacturer to get the max. oil volume. We put a few cc's shy of the max in ours. Putting to much oil in them will cause the shocks to hydro-lock and could blow the seals.

Jeremy

Neal3000 · Dec 4, 2012

And I bet they will still unload on you afterwards^^^

bobo · Dec 4, 2012

Yes they will still unload, just not nearly as bad. With extra oil in them when the uphill shock tries to unload the downhill shock will "resist" being compressed faster as the "spring rate" increase is a function of oil volume & viscosity.

fordcontraption01 · Dec 4, 2012

From what ive seen coilovers unload also please correct me if im wrong.

TacomaJD · Dec 4, 2012

May try limiting straps on each side first, just to see....since that's a simple bolt on / bolt off application....and see how she does with a little less travel.

Neal3000 said:
And I bet they will still unload on you afterwards^^^

What solution would you suggest trying first?

ibrokeit · Dec 4, 2012

I bet unlocking your front diff would help a ton when riding around on the access trails.

Neal3000 · Dec 5, 2012

TacomaJD said:
May try limiting straps on each side first, just to see....since that's a simple bolt on / bolt off application....and see how she does with a little less travel.

What solution would you suggest trying first?

Yeah, Get coilovers......imo a full bodied rig is just too top heavy for airshocks, especially 2.0's......or you can fix it with a swaybar

skipnrocks · Dec 5, 2012

TacomaJD said:
May try limiting straps on each side first, just to see....since that's a simple bolt on / bolt off application....and see how she does with a little less travel.

What solution would you suggest trying first?

Tune the shocks first. The rear of your truck is not to heavy for 2.0, then when their working their best you will know if you need anything else... Limit straps and sway bars are bandaids. I have had 2.0s on four corners of a street rig and full bodied trail rig. Same problem with both with the unloading after tuning neither needed sway bars or limit straps.

yankster · Dec 5, 2012

Neal3000 said:
Yeah, Get coilovers......imo a full bodied rig is just too top heavy for airshocks, especially 2.0's......or you can fix it with a swaybar

Agreed. Lots of folks knock the sway bars but there are a lot of badass rigs built by folks who know more than us that are running them. Sure they limit flex a bit. But they don't eliminate flex and we're not exactly crawling the Rubicon in the Southeast.
Here's a pic of the Riddler buggy by Coleworx with front and rear swaybars!!

Neal3000 · Dec 5, 2012

agreed that the rear of a truck is light but you have to think that in a sidehill situation or in a turn, the force of ALL the sprung weight is acting against the suspension and contrary to popular belief toyota trucks are not light, plus it has a full exo cage and spare tire etc on it. Tuning the shocks will help, it'll be interesting to see if it's enough or not. A lot of times having leafsprings on the front will help control body roll, you must either have some really flexy leafsprings or the sprung weight and/or body height is just too much for it them do any good.

TacomaJD · Dec 5, 2012

Neal3000 said:
agreed that the rear of a truck is light but you have to think that in a sidehill situation or in a turn, the force of ALL the sprung weight is acting against the suspension and contrary to popular belief toyota trucks are not light, plus it has a full exo cage and spare tire etc on it. Tuning the shocks will help, it'll be interesting to see if it's enough or not. A lot of times having leafsprings on the front will help control body roll, you must either have some really flexy leafsprings or the sprung weight and/or body height is just too much for it them do any good.

I forgot the minor detail that the fj80 front axle has the factory e-locker and the switch or maybe some other component, does not work in order to be able to unlock or lock the front end manually. It is always locked. Haven't checked into why it won't work.

With that being said, and Brock talking some sense into me about just how much the front end being locked ALL the time affects it even in 2wd. I will most likely try going to a different style locker like a full Detroit or something first before even touching the shocks. Then either tune the air shocks after the locker swap if it still has any roll, or find some used or maybe even brand new coilovers like the Kings I've already mentioned buying.

That's just my theory. From the start of this thread, it took some thinking for me to realize the possibility of just how much the front end being locked all the time (with drive flanges too so no unlocking of one hub) affects the leaning. So in summary, my bet is after a locker swap and tuning the air shocks or even going to coilovers. Problem will be solved completely without the use of sway bars or other bandaid type problem solvers.

....then again, none of that could work and I could end up throwing away $1500 when it's all said and done with and still have an ole leaner rig. molaugh

machen4x4 · Dec 5, 2012

hey jd i will trade you the lock in hubs that came on the truck for the drive flanges, if you want to try that.

TacomaJD · Dec 5, 2012

machen4x4 said:
hey jd i will trade you the lock in hubs that came on the truck for the drive flanges, if you want to try that.

Thanks but I had rather stay with the drive flanges, and just switch to a locker that will let the left and right axles rotate at different speeds to hopefully knock out alot of the body roll overall. I will most likely never need to unlock the hubs anyways since it's a pure trailer queen, no road or high speed driving.