best place in snohomish county to get off road diesel

spidertoy · Jun 21, 2014

Gonna be renting a large excavator and need to find decently priced off road diesel, snohomish co-op wants 3.99 a gallon, hoping to find a better price than that as we will have the machine for a week

crash2 · Jun 21, 2014

They started selling at the chevron in sultan at the roundabout on the east side of town. I am going to start getting it there now.

DHR Darren · Jun 21, 2014

Go to your local bulk supplier. They will sell it to you for cash.

At $3.99 for off road I'd just buy green for $3.89 at safeway. :awesomework:

spidertoy · Jun 21, 2014

DHR Darren said:
Go to your local bulk supplier. They will sell it to you for cash.

At $3.99 for off road I'd just buy green for $3.89 at safeway. :awesomework:

No doubt, but if I can find offroad diesel for less than green, that's what I'm gonna buy since I will probably be needing a little over a hundred gallons in ten days

ChopTop84 · Jun 21, 2014

dont forgot that they charge sales tax on top of the listed price per gallon. Thats the trade for not paying state and federal road tax. You should be able to get red fuel for about 50 cents less than green, then add sale tax.

BARYOTA · Jun 25, 2014

You might want to check with a bulk delivery company like nelson petroleum or Wilcox and flegal in Arlington they might have better prices and they are probably going to be able to deliver to your location

spidertoy · Jun 25, 2014

BARYOTA said:
You might want to check with a bulk delivery company like nelson petroleum or Wilcox and flegal in Arlington they might have better prices and they are probably going to be able to deliver to your location

Nelson was three eighty yesterday when I asked, but I didn't ask hie much delivery would cost

zukkev · Jun 25, 2014

Up here, the savings after paying sales tax doesn't warrant my driving all over tarnation just to have red fuel...Of course I only use about 10 gallons a yr too! :haha:

Maverick26 · Jun 25, 2014

I get my tank filled at Nelson Petrolium in Arlington... I think last time I filled up it was 2.87 a gal? Not sure, I dont look at the bill anymore.

nowires · Jun 25, 2014

Just pay the tax, fill the form out and get the check in 3 weeks. You will spend more money running around trying to save money and really by the time you really figure it out for 100 gallon how much are you really going to save

Now I don't know about a large machine, but I wish my machine would run on 10 gallons a day :haha:

Trail Beast · Jun 25, 2014

I've got 125 gallons for sale. $400
#1 / High sulfer content. (off road diesel)

The pumps deliver #2 (15% sulfer content / green)

benw1 · Jun 25, 2014

#1 is kerosene / stove oil.

Off road is red dyed #2. It is generally the same sulfur content as green highway diesel these days.

ChopTop84 · Jun 25, 2014

benw said:
Off road is red dyed #2. It is generally the same sulfur content as green highway diesel these days.

This is correct. I had an oil refinery guy straighten me out when I was in New Orleans. He says because of EPA rule changes, all off road diesel is the same sulfur content as road diesel now. Same truck goes into both tanks, then the driver dumps in a pack of red die. Has been this way since early to mid 2000's even before the ULSD fuel hit the market in 07.

#1 diesel is basically #2 diesel with the paraffin's processed out of it so it doesnt gel at low temps. Down side is, it removes all lubricating qualities out of the fuel, and you can destroy an injection pump if your rig is not designed for it. Also lower BTU content which means lower power and lower fuel mileage

Winter fuel is just a blend of #1 and #2. Lower gel temp, but still have some lubricating qualities. ****ty fuel mileage and lower power tho.

Trail Beast · Jun 25, 2014

benw said:
#1 is kerosene / stove oil.

Off road is red dyed #2. It is generally the same sulfur content as green highway diesel these days.

#1 = fuel oil (red dye) not road taxed & higher sulfer content. NOT the same.
uses = oil furnaces / tractor fuel
#2 = legal road taxed fuel. lower sulfer content. (green dye)

Kerosene is not #1 diesel

I still have 125 gallons for $400
$450 for the containers with it.

DHR Darren · Jun 25, 2014

This is correct.
Any naysayers can download the MSDS on all three and compare.

ChopTop84 said:
This is correct. I had an oil refinery guy straighten me out when I was in New Orleans. He says because of EPA rule changes, all off road diesel is the same sulfur content as road diesel now. Same truck goes into both tanks, then the driver dumps in a pack of red die. Has been this way since early to mid 2000's even before the ULSD fuel hit the market in 07.

#1 diesel is basically #2 diesel with the paraffin's processed out of it so it doesnt gel at low temps. Down side is, it removes all lubricating qualities out of the fuel, and you can destroy an injection pump if your rig is not designed for it. Also lower BTU content which means lower power and lower fuel mileage

Winter fuel is just a blend of #1 and #2. Lower gel temp, but still have some lubricating qualities. ****ty fuel mileage and lower power tho.

benw1 · Jun 25, 2014

Trail Beast said:
#1 = fuel oil (red dye) not road taxed & higher sulfer content. NOT the same.
uses = oil furnaces / tractor fuel
#2 = legal road taxed fuel. lower sulfer content. (green dye)

Kerosene is not #1 diesel

I still have 125 gallons for $400
$450 for the containers with it.

Sorry but you are wrong. Furnaces and tractors use red dyed #2. Call any fuel distributor and ask them.

ChopTop is correct that winter fuel is sometimes a blend of #1 and #2 to lower the gel point. Some distributors have started using an additive instead of #1 for winter blends.

ChopTop84 · Jun 26, 2014

Offroad used to be high sulfur, like 5,000ppm, while road diesel had to be something like 500ppm.

Then the epa made off-road meet the 500ppm rules, while road diesel went to 15ppm. This was circa 2006.

In 2010, EPA made offroad meet the same ULSD rules as road diesel. 15ppm, Red or Green.

Exemption. Railroad and marine.

The other thing I was taught by the oil refinery guy was that the everyone thought high sulfur meant high lubrication. He said thats wrong. The process of removing the sulfur also strips the lubrication properties, and that additives are added back in after processing to restore lubrication.

Sulfur is/was responsible for the nasty smell that used to be associated with diesels, well, above and beyond the normal "diesel" smell you get today.

oneshot · Jun 30, 2014

spidertoy said:
No doubt, but if I can find offroad diesel for less than green, that's what I'm gonna buy since I will probably be needing a little over a hundred gallons in ten days

You may want to rethink your fuel use, or did you just drop off a zero? 100gal a day on a big machine is less then normal for what I do.

Trail Beast · Jun 30, 2014

benw said:
Sorry but you are wrong. Furnaces and tractors use red dyed #2. Call any fuel distributor and ask them.

ChopTop is correct that winter fuel is sometimes a blend of #1 and #2 to lower the gel point. Some distributors have started using an additive instead of #1 for winter blends.

OK! I could've swore the tag on every green diesel pump said #2. But, I haven't seen a pump yet, with the tag I read. I was told by the delivery guy @ Safeway, & my diesel mechanic, that the red was a higher sulfer content, & could possibly burn up injectors if you run it in a regular diesel.
SO, RED DYED DIESEL / HEATING OIL is what I have for sale. It comes in 15 gal. containers.
My understanding is, If I got caught running the red diesel in my truck, more than 15ppm, there's a $10K fine.....Since off road diesel isn't taxed.
Doesn't make much sense to me!!! Since you can make your own Bio Diesel, & there's no tax on THAT!

DHR Darren · Jun 30, 2014

In my doosan 300 log loader I burn 5.3 gallons an hour average in a day of shovel logging & loading.
Our john deere 959k feller buncher burns an average of 8.9gph and cat 325 processor burns 7.1gph on a hard worked day.

ChopTop84 · Jun 30, 2014

Trail Beast said:
My understanding is, If I got caught running the red diesel in my truck, more than 15ppm, there's a $10K fine.....Since off road diesel isn't taxed.
Doesn't make much sense to me!!! Since you can make your own Bio Diesel, & there's no tax on THAT!

You understand correctly. $10k fine, charged tax on the entire volume of your storage tank (if you have one) regardless of how much is in it, and you cant purchase red fuel for a certain period. There was a vacuum truck service in tacoma got popped for running red a couple years ago. Wasnt pretty.

As for bio-diesel, you are supposed to pay road tax, but its self reporting. There is a form you fill out. I used to have a copy. Commercial bio-d collects it for you. Homebrew guys should just shut up and not tell anyone. All it takes is one "tip" to the revenuers and your busted.

benw1 · Jun 30, 2014

Trail Beast said:
OK! I could've swore the tag on every green diesel pump said #2.

IT DOES!

Highway Diesel = green #2.
Off-Road / Farm / Non-Taxed Diesel = red #2.

What is so hard to understand about that?

Lucky Jeff · Jun 30, 2014

There use to be a difference between regular number 2 and off road number 2. Now there isn't (as the others have stated). Even less of a reason to chance it. Last time I bought off-road diesel it was 87 cents a gallon :haha:

Binder · Jul 1, 2014

ChopTop84 said:
You understand correctly. $10k fine, charged tax on the entire volume of your storage tank (if you have one) regardless of how much is in it, and you cant purchase red fuel for a certain period.
.

This is a class C felony. Up to $50,000 and 5 years in the slammer. Any way you look at it, it's not something to mess with.

zukkev · Jul 1, 2014

Binder said:
This is a class C felony. Up to $50,000 and 5 years in the slammer. Any way you look at it, it's not something to mess with.

Yup....This...
Not to mention, at least in my area, the red is not much less than green once they add the sales tax that the State has now deemed they could charge since the road tax is not there. The wopping savings in our area is less than 20 cents/gal...not worth it..

Trail Beast · Jul 1, 2014

benw said:
IT DOES!

Highway Diesel = green #2.
Off-Road / Farm / Non-Taxed Diesel = red #2.

What is so hard to understand about that?

Probably the visual I have in my head from an oil furnace, tuning training video I've had for 15 yrs that says fuel oil is #1, & my combustion analyser settings for oil furnace testing.

DHR Darren · Jul 1, 2014

Right now my CFN account is at $3.81 per gallon for off road fuel and it is $3.85 at Safeway for green.

ChopTop84 · Jul 1, 2014

You can also buy green diesel and then apply for a road tax rebate. That way you can get the cheaper safeway fuels, and then get your road tax money back.

benw1 · Jul 1, 2014

ChopTop84 said:
You can also buy green diesel and then apply for a road tax rebate. That way you can get the cheaper safeway fuels, and then get your road tax money back.

If you do this make sure you have irrefutable records of your non-taxable use. Don't intermingle your taxable and non-taxable purchases of fuel.

Don't forget that you have to file for the Federal Excise Tax ($.244/gal) refund and the Washington State Special Fuel Tax ($.375/gal) refund separately. You will also pay Use Tax to the state if you get the fuel tax refunded.