CC disputes

patooyee · Sep 8, 2016

I have disputed a charge with TCS Converters. The CC company called me today to get the details and then called them. They ignored the CC company as they have been me, which is the core problem. (****-quality of work is another.) After being ignored the CC company promptly issued a temporary credit to my account for the entire amount. (I'm not sure I'm using the terms credit & debit correctly.) They say that TCS has 45 days to respond. I'm guessing that this means they have debited TCS's account and are basically saying, "If you want your money back, contact us." Has anyone gone through this before? I have never had a need to dispute a charge before. I have a couple worries:

1. TCS has my converter right now. The CC company representative is a foreign guy who obviously doesn't understand the first thing about a torque converter. I'm afraid that language barrier / miscommunication may result in TCS winning the dispute. If that happens am I just out $700 + a converter?

2. If I go buy another converter somewhere else now, I guess there is still a possibility that TCS could win the dispute and I now own two converters? (Assuming TCS even ships their defective unit back to me.)

3. If I DON'T buy another converter now, I'm just on a 1.5-month hold?

Anyone got any advice?

ranger11 · Sep 8, 2016

Re:

Id put everything in writing and send it in an email to the cc company. TCS may not respond since its obviously their fault.

TacomaJD · Sep 8, 2016

I have no advice, but you used credit and debit terms correctly. If you were talking about financial statement accounts for a business, the terms would be reversed for an asset based cash account, but in the personal money account world, the standard function of a debit deducting and credit suplementing, is correct.

wizzo · Sep 8, 2016

I've been involved with disputes from the seller side. From what I know, you file your claim. Your CC takes the money from the seller. Seller has a chance to file a rebuttal but even then your CC is going to be on your side and it will be difficult for the seller to win. From what I've seen it is best for the seller to sort it out or in this case, make it right with the buyer and then the buyer will contact their CC to send the money back to seller. Don't consider this be all end all but just what I've seen.

lowbudgetjunk · Sep 8, 2016

They are called charge backs. I have won, as the seller, all of them. If the quality of work and work in a timely manner is what is being disputed, the seller has the advantage if they keep good records. What is timely on a torque converter comes from SME's, and based on the current workload at their shop. They get the benefit of the doubt being considered The experts on timeframe and workload, which is garbage, but it is the way it goes. The quality of work will be where you will have a fighting chance. This can be tested via an outside source, but usually at your expense.

All this said, if they don't follow up, you win. I just got one in the mail for $486 that I have a video of the purchaser and their signature. A little different on this case, but using Credit Cards, it is always important to get an actual signature. It will take me 30-45 days to get my money back....complete pita

mckeddie · Sep 8, 2016

I've had to file a few for various reasons, as has my wife. Priceline triple charging us for a room is the only 1that we have ever lost, and that was only bc the cc had no way to contact them aftervsomehow priceline took the money back from the cc company. That was like 10 years ago though. My wife's bussiness has had to do it multiple times on equipment we received damaged as well (apparently vinyl mats are hard to not damage or tear in shipping).

John Galbreath Jr. · Sep 8, 2016

I have been through several from both sides. My gut says you will get your money back, but not the converter.

patooyee · Sep 8, 2016

JohnG said:
I have been through several from both sides. My gut says you will get your money back, but not the converter.

That's actually what I'm hoping for. I am no longer at all confident in their work and would not want the converter back.

The first time they sent it to me it had the wrong input spline count.
The second time the oil pump drive was machined too large to fit in the oil pump, the bolt pattern was incorrect, converter length was incorrect, pilot dowel dia. was too large, and the mounting pads were not flat / level.
I never signed anything, the transaction was done via phone.
No contract was ever presented to me.
It took them a week longer than promised the first time. (That's wasn't a big deal.)
I have been unsuccessful getting them to return my calls or emails since the second time it went back. It has been 2 weeks now. I have called at least 5 times and emailed twice.
They do have their converter back, so they can't say I haven't returned it.
I'm hoping this all works in my favor.

When I initially had issues the second time, the receptionist tried to blame it on me for not specifying oil pump drive size, bolt pattern, or pilot dia. These are all universal dimensions dictated by the engine and transmission applications, which I did tell them. Plus, they weren't off by a lot. Just by a little that would indicate shoddy machine work. So it's not like they didn't know the correct dimension, they just didn't accomplish it. But today when the CC company called the receptionist gave the chinese CC rep the same spiel and I could tell that he was confused. I explained to him that these are all universal dimensions that shouldn't have to be specified but I could tell that his lack of automotive knowledge and the English language was turning it all into one giant cloud of titties in his brain. She said that she would have the owner call him back, which is what she has been telling me for 2 weeks.

The one dimension that was off that was custom (length) I tried to discuss with the owner and he interrupted me, said he had built a thousand of these things before, and he would get it right, I shouldn't worry. I actually had a cad drawing with dimensions that I wanted to send to him but he didn't want to see it. As it turns out the length is wrong by the exact difference between my drawing and his converter.

I'm not really detailing all of this to try and get anyone to take a side. Just to warn of the difficulties working with http://tcsperformance.com/.

InDaShop · Sep 9, 2016

I've worked with Rusty for a few years now after giving up on my support local shops failed in the converter dept.
I've been to TCS, Rusty show me around, he's overnighted me a unit before, and seemingly gone out of his way to ensure we had his support, the right sized unit for the application.
I was on the way to KOH when I stopped and he asked if I could hand deliver a couple units for him as spares to a couple racers he was supporting there.

Of all the vendors I've had trouble with I'm extremely surprised to see this. Like shocked, I'd put TCS in my top 5 or so to deal and work with.

patooyee · Sep 9, 2016

InDaShop said:
I've worked with Rusty for a few years now after giving up on my support local shops failed in the converter dept.
I've been to TCS, Rusty show me around, he's overnighted me a unit before, and seemingly gone out of his way to ensure we had his support, the right sized unit for the application.
I was on the way to KOH when I stopped and he asked if I could hand deliver a couple units for him as spares to a couple racers he was supporting there.

Of all the vendors I've had trouble with I'm extremely surprised to see this. Like shocked, I'd put TCS in my top 5 or so to deal and work with.

Don't know. He's a nice guy on the phone, I'm sure in person, too. His method of conflict resolution seems to be to ignore the problem though. I'm not a racer. Maybe racers get preferential treatment. That seems to be the norm these days. I would say that maybe you can get him to call me, but at this point I just want my money back. Nothing he could say would convince me otherwise. You get 90 days to dispute a transaction and I'm not going to let him **** me around until I have no recourse left. I've been through this rigmarole too many times with vendors in this industry. This just happens to be the first time I've ever used credit and had this option.

poolman · Sep 9, 2016

Edit, nevermind, you answered my question in your first post,, my bad. Good luck sir!!

bgredjeep · Sep 9, 2016

2 words. Ballistic Fab.

I had to dispute a charge for a part they couldn't deliver, and couldn't seem to issue a refund properly after 4 attempts. They never responded to the dispute, which equaled a win for me and a full refund.

Gotpropane · Sep 10, 2016

You will win no problem. No response to the cc company and you don't stand any chance.

patooyee · Sep 10, 2016

Gotpropane said:
You will win no problem. No response to the cc company and you don't stand any chance.

Well, he's got 43 more days. Just sucks not knowing for that long.

I'm not going to put everything on hold that long. Just going to have to buy again and hope everything works out.

redneckengineered · Sep 13, 2016

patooyee said:
Well, he's got 43 more days. Just sucks not knowing for that long.

I'm not going to put everything on hold that long. Just going to have to buy again and hope everything works out.

Dealing with the CC company sucks for everyone involved. Usually you just use the dispute to get the attention of a shitty vendor. Once the dispute is filed, in my experience, both parties come to the table fairly quickly to resolve then you cancel the dispute with the CC company and everyone moves on. I would call Rusty multiple times daily until I got his ass on the phone. Also, if you don't like the foreign rep you can ask for someone USA based. Just escalate the ticket until you get someone you're happy with.