Coilover Tech

John Galbreath Jr. · Sep 30, 2015

mac5005 said:
He are the formulas for getting the right springs.

Initial spring rate=(Main spring rate * Tender spring rate)/(Main spring rate +Tender spring rate)

This formula is only correct if the coilover is straight up and down. If leaned in/out or front/back, then the Installation Ratio needs to be considered.

mac5005 · Sep 30, 2015

JohnG said:
This formula is only correct if the coilover is straight up and down. If leaned in/out or front/back, then the Installation Ratio needs to be considered.

If you measure your currently installed springs, current preload, and shaft exposed, the equation will give you weight supported at the shock, regardless of mounting angle.

This weight at shock, may not be the actual corner sprung weight, for reason you point out above.

But, using wanyes method, you get the correct springs with 2" preload, and desired shock exposed, without having to factor shock angle.

My .02, which ain't ****.

This why the actual weight supported at shock method (Wayne's) is more accurate to each setup than knowing the corner sprung weight and factoring shock angle to get it close.

wizzo · Sep 30, 2015

Neal3000 said:
A tuning session for a trailrig seems kind of ridiculous and a waste of money. Wayne can get you right where you need to be with mail order tuning

Wayne is great to work with via mail order tuning. Get your springs right first. You can work with a local shop on swapping springs, most shops will swap springs as long as they don't look used. Take your rig out. Figure out what you don't like, take a video, etc. Wayne will probably ask you to tell him what your current valving shim stacks are. Then he will mail you what you need. You can tune from there until satisfied.

karatejosh · Sep 30, 2015

Re:

For me 400 bucks was well worth it I have a diffrent buggy then when I went to the tune day and I know alot more about my shocks

poolman · Sep 30, 2015

Neal3000 said:
What i did was pm Wayne on pirate, you tell him what you have, specs, weight, what you want to do with it and he will get you right on springs and send you shim packs that will make you happy.

Neal, I appreciate your tech. And every aviator you've had,,,,, but that one is terrible.

Neal3000 · Oct 1, 2015

Sorry, didn't mean to be offensive! Oh wait yes i did

Neal3000 · Oct 1, 2015

Kel, this is a great video on how to disassemble/rebuild Fox shocks

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=POunLnsInQk

kushKrawlin · Oct 1, 2015

This is really almost unbelievable.. I can NOT imagine "tuning" my **** 100's of times tryin to get it right... I had considered c/o's for the new lil whip I'm building.. But after reading this it pretty much sealed the deal. ... No fawkin way! This sounds kinda insane.. My god what a nightmare... Spring on coil over lovers .. Spring on. The right spring rate is out there.. Beside the needle in that huge haystack.

mcutler · Oct 1, 2015

The right spring rate is the easiest part, tuning the shims is where the golden egg is. Not as difficult as it sounds with some practice and a knowledgeable tutor. Beats the multiple trips I had that my ori's leaked nitro or oil, leaving me on the bumps; necessitating carrying my charge setup with me everywhere i wheeled. Hard to beat ori for super simple set up, and out of the box ride quality.

But if I blow a fox seal, hose, etc. I can still wheel all weekend on my steel coil springs. ..

I've yet to walk in my shop after a week or two and see one of my coilovers sitting on the bumps cause they leaked down.

I would run ori again, but if I can afford it, I will do coilovers first.

On a side note, I tuned my shocks with phone, email advice from Wayne, got it to 80% performance, tuned once with Wayne after, now sitting close to 95% performance. rides better than the ori did, not to mention I can take a rolling table top jump upwards of 40mph if so inclined.

Biggest drawback of coilovers to me is noise.
matt

karatejosh · Oct 1, 2015

Re:

I think I got my shocks to 90% in 1 day wich is all I really need for what I do and now my back won't hurt evry time I go ride that was worth the money to speed up the process coilovers do make noise and so do hiems that's why I have tower speakers lol

wizzo · Oct 1, 2015

kushKrawlin said:
This is really almost unbelievable.. I can NOT imagine "tuning" my **** 100's of times tryin to get it right... I had considered c/o's for the new lil whip I'm building.. But after reading this it pretty much sealed the deal. ... No fawkin way! This sounds kinda insane.. My god what a nightmare... Spring on coil over lovers .. Spring on. The right spring rate is out there.. Beside the needle in that huge haystack.

It's really not that hard. A little time/ effort and you will have learned something new and have a better performing rig.

snoball · Oct 2, 2015

Made the jump from ORI as well and will never look back. Once the spring rates are close its amazing how much better coil overs ride before even starting to play with valving. I was surprised how easy revalving was once I got into the shocks. Wayne is the man, takes time to talk to anyone that calls and is super knowledgable.

TRD · Oct 5, 2015

lowbudgetjunk said:
I searched and the best thread I found pertaining to the subject linked back to Pirate. I had a lot of success with my PogoSticks (air shocks) from the previous thread, that I thought some Coilover help will soon be warranted. I have truly seen some awful jobs on set up with spring rates and balling and if I am not careful, I will be the worst.

I will post up my buggy specs/coil overs once they all find their way to the same state. In the meantime, feel free to ask questions, add remarks and help idiots like myself keep all four tires on the ground in the best way possible. Though I don't mind links to other sites, it is easier for me to understand common man terms and ideas from real world experience. BillaVista can sometimes make my head hurt.

Your problems might be due to the fact that many dealers sell "Factory" valving that is waaaayyyy off from what any vehicle needs. Getting a set of pretuned coilovers will put you so far down the road you may not bother tuning.

Here is a thread about which shocks are right for you (sorry about the pirate link): http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/2130786-shock-tech-thread-dyno-data-shocks-should-you-buy.html

If you have any specific questions about shock tuning I'd be happy to help on here. Rockbouncers need a lot different tune than Ultra 4 cars, the obstacles are different and the racing is different.

If you're building a new bouncer I highly recommend running a lot of up travel, it'll really open up your tuning options and help keep the tires on the ground.

BUG-E J · Oct 5, 2015

I have had 2 different tune sessions offered to me for free and I have told everybody Jimmy at EOR is the only person that is allowed to touch my shocks. Every time I race a hill I get complimented on how my buggy handles. Wayne is awesome at what he does but from the wrong coast. If you are gonna wheel the south you need someone that knows how to tune here.

muddinmetal · Oct 6, 2015

Re:

karatejosh said:
that's why I have tower speakers lol

Mortalis5509 · Oct 6, 2015

Re: Re: Coilover Tech

BUG-E J said:
I have had 2 different tune sessions offered to me for free and I have told everybody Jimmy at EOR is the only person that is allowed to touch my shocks. Every time I race a hill I get complimented on how my buggy handles. Wayne is awesome at what he does but from the wrong coast. If you are gonna wheel the south you need someone that knows how to tune here.

I believe a good tuner could adapt to any terrain. Wayne just did a tuning session on the east cost a few weeks back that anyone could have got in on.

Neal3000 · Oct 6, 2015

Seems like ultra4 rigs have more than held their own in those hillkiller shootouts, i'd be willing to bet Wayne tuned most if not all of them.

BUG-E J · Oct 6, 2015

Neal3000 said:
Seems like ultra4 rigs have more than held their own in those hillkiller shootouts, i'd be willing to bet Wayne tuned most if not all of them.

And most have triple bypasses. We talking coilovers

Neal3000 · Oct 6, 2015

Coilovers or bypasses doesn't matter, it still comes down to proper tuning.

cdemart2 · Oct 6, 2015

Re: Re: Coilover Tech

Mortalis5509 said:
I believe a good tuner could adapt to any terrain. Wayne just did a tuning session on the east cost a few weeks back that anyone could have got in on.

I was there and was surprised how few people showed up considering how many talk about how they wish Wayne came east more.