defense vs. offense

[Jaydog]

If you click on my Sig "washington land matters" it will take you to a page full of resources to look at.

Here is a letter from Doug Southerland, Commissioner of public lands
http://www.dnr.wa.gov/htdocs/lm/recreation/orv/oped_orv_final.pdf

This is a letter that answers a lot of the questions you are asking, DNR is not obligated to allow ORV users because it is "Trust" land not "Public Land"
http://www.dnr.wa.gov/htdocs/lm/recreation/orv/faq_orv.pdf

 

[Gibby1]

2 years ago the DNR came to an Elbe focus group meeting with the higher ups and gave the following information. I am paraphrasing... it was 2 years ago.

"Most of you will be surprised to hear this but the DNR has done a 180 about face with regards to motorized recreation on DNR land. We have recognized the increasing popularity of the sport both in usage and in the volunteer efforts." They handed out new phamplets explaining their new approach to the recreation aspect of the land including the motorized groups. They also gave us a sneak preview and the new usage system that they want to put in place because they basically don't have any (or many) and they are 30 years outdated. The sample rules weren't meant to be restrictive, simply to be updated. These are going to be made available on their website when completed. I do not know who has interaction with these rules from a user group perspective. This issue with the busywild has nothing to do with those new set of rules, nor about any laws. The primary law in place right now is that you have to obey the rules... whatever those may be. Without the rules the DNR is challenged to enforce anything and without posting the rules the enforcement would never stick. I'm talking about any rules that don't fall directly under other legal authority.

This my first meeting with the DNR as the PNW4WDA Region 2 land manager for Elbe Hills, so I have no previous experience with all the bad stuff that's happened in the past.

You should also know that I took this position by default because noone else volunteered. Leaving the position unattended (even if you don't like the way I've handled things) was an option that I wasn't willing to consider, so stupid me, I stuck my hand up to volunteer until someone else came along that really wanted the job. I doubt that ANYONE will want the job now.

Since that time, I have found Nancy and the DNR very willing to give and take on various issues and willing to work with us on trying to provide what we want within the boundaries of what she's able to do. There are multiple agencies that overlook the work being done there, not just the DNR. AT Tahuya they've worked long and hard, with a lot of people to get approval to build some new trails. The loggers are preventing that at Elbe. It would be great to use the old logging and skidder roads (apparently you already did LOL!) and turn them into trail but the loggers have been fighting even letting us use their roads for access. In fact one of the mail roads OFF the busywild is a logging road that used to be blocked off and the only reason that it's not, is because the loggers haven't gone back in to block it off again.

The only way to get new roads at Elbe for example involves a significant amount of effort, more than I certainly have time for... I'd rather be wheeling. I've only been to Elbe once this year to wheel that wasn't either for a meeting or work party.

I don't disagree that there is an opporunity to address the issue of fighting for additional trail mileage, but that's going to require someone with a lot more free time on their hands than I have and I bet it's a 5-10 year battle that they'd have to be prepared to engage in. The PNW4WDA recently lost a couple of battles that they've been working on for over 3 years now. We even had DNR approval for new ORV parks in one of three different areas over on the Olympic Peninsula but were finally shot down by local governments and local residents over concerns of noise, illegal activity and "not in my backyard" attitudes.

 

[SnoFalls]

2 years ago the DNR came to an Elbe focus group meeting with the higher ups and gave the following information. I am paraphrasing... it was 2 years ago.

"Most of you will be surprised to hear this but the DNR has done a 180 about face with regards to motorized recreation on DNR land. We have recognized the increasing popularity of the sport both in usage and in the volunteer efforts."

I would wager a bet that this was was DUE to the efforts of the pnw4wda ... so props.

The PNW4WDA recently lost a couple of battles that they've been working on for over 3 years now. We even had DNR approval for new ORV parks in one of three different areas over on the Olympic Peninsula but were finally shot down by local governments and local residents over concerns of noise, illegal activity and "not in my backyard" attitudes.

but why was it *only* the pnw4wda? obviously mud4funtoy has been able to grass roots a phonecall campaign recently.

look, pnw4wda may be the only "organized" (and $35 per person funded) organization around here, but forums, and others like this (e.g pirate), and also the blue ribbon folks can get the word out to make a difference too.

so the "shot down by local governments and local residents" is likely because the only voice was some pnw4wda guy (and not a 100 folks ringing elected officials phones).

 

[Gibby1]

I would wager a bet that this was was DUE to the efforts of the pnw4wda ... so props.


but why was it *only* the pnw4wda? obviously mud4funtoy has been able to grass roots a phonecall campaign recently.

mud4funtoy IS a PNW4WDA member and runs a region 2 club. He was also the previous PNW4WDA representative to Elbe Hills.

look, pnw4wda may be the only "organized" (and $35 per person funded) organization around here, but forums, and others like this (e.g pirate), and also the blue ribbon folks can get the word out to make a difference too.

You're right they can, but they haven't been. RTW did spring up from a lot of people in this forum but honestly, I have no idea where that's at at this time. It's in a area that I don't get to.

so the "shot down by local governments and local residents" is likely because the only voice was some pnw4wda guy (and not a 100 folks ringing elected officials phones).

I'm not going to completely disagree with you on that, however, there were posts about this issue on this board as well as several others, even ads in the paper, letter writing campaigns and more, but alas, not enough. The person in charge of this project didn't get involved in the public forum like I have (gee I wonder why, we're treated with such compassion and respect..)

Most of the powers that be in the PNW4WDA have are either completely turned off the public forums because of the ethugery (is that a word) and blatant ignorance that a number of people posess. I've fought with the PNW, as have a few others, to get more internet based and communicate better with the public. It because of responses like the one's I've received over the past few weeks, that they have either been burned or seen what happened and want no part of it. I don't blame them... The rest, the one's with time, know how and influence, hate computers and are tired of it all.

Starting up a disorganized organization isn't really the answer. It may win a battle but it'll lose the war if it's not maintained and managed.


You should take a read on the land matters portions of the Tripower to see what the various PNW people are up to. You might be surprised.