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Elbe Hills Focus Group Summary

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Gibby1

Did I BREAK that.......
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Elbe Focus Group report

The turnout was very small for the ORV community, only 4 people plus Nancy Barker, from the DNR.

This however was a very important meeting as some critical decisions were made.

First, for the news:
The helicopter has completed dropping tons of rock in along side various sections of the busywild. This rock is fairly large – from 12-18" most of it, and will be used eventually for trail repairs as needed.

We have a couple of loads or concrete remnants 1" to 6" concrete chunks to use wherever we need it.

We're cleared to go ahead with the improvements to the rock quarry at the end of the 9 road and the Rainier Vista.

Now, for the new stuff:

We agreed to a trail rating system and renaming a couple of trail sections.

We are going to be using a 4 step rating system.
Green Circle – Easy: These trails are passable for any 4x4 vehicle.
There are no Easy rated trails at Elbe Hills ORV Park.
Blue Square – Moderate: These trails are passable by most 4x4 vehicles with 31" – 33" offroad tires, may be more difficult in full size vehicles. Recovery equipment recommended.
The Sunrise, Gotcha, Alder Loop, Mainline as well as two new trail sections, the Mainline Cut (that name isn't final yet) and the newly named "Easywild". The Easywild is the second half of the Busywild that a lot of people don't get to. It's not been well marked in the past.
Black Diamond – Difficult: Recommended equipment includes 33"-35" tires, a single locker and vehicle recovery equipment.
The Mainline Extension and Swamp trail have this this rating.
Double Black Diamond – Extreme: Recommended equipment includes 36" or larger tires, dual lockers, winch and body armor.
There are two trails with this rating, the busywild and Rainier Vista (after it's been renovated…)

Each trail will have a sign at the trail head and indicators at each trail intersection.
This winter, each trail will get marked with diamonds that are color matched to the trail map. There will be a work party when these are ready to be put up.

So, that's all the good news, NOW, the flame suit goes on.
There is a vehicle restriction for the busywild that will be enforced and a gatekeeper will be built. This gatekeeper will keep out underprepared and "oversized" vehicles. The busywild will be restricted to vehicles with a wheelbase shorter than 107" and a maximum width defined as 82" outside bulge to outside bulge of the tires. As before the busywild is a one way only trail year round.

There will be another focus group meeting in two months.
 
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i didnt forget he never told me like i asked
 
I like the trail rating system. Easy to understand. Like skiing.....:awesomework: Just don't hit a tree.:redneck:
 
Hey there Gibster, what's your wheelbase and track width on your 4runner?

Wouldn't happen to be 107" and 82" would it?
 
Wish I could have come but thats a long ways from portland on a weeknight. Deffinately post up when the work partys will be. It's not that far on weekends :awesomework:. The rig is torn apart right now but I sure I can find an open seat.
 
Hey there Gibster, what's your wheelbase and track width on your 4runner?

Wouldn't happen to be 107" and 82" would it?


I replied to your post on Timbercrawler but no, it is close however, 106 and 81.

I do know that I am as big as it gets when it comes to fitting on the busy. What she calls fitting compared to you and I call fitting, are two different things. Rubbing up against a tree to get around a corner means you don't fit. Using a exo or other cage to slide along trees, doesn't fit. Getting body damage. Doing front wheel digs to get the nose around a corner or between two trees, doesn't fit.

At the end of the day, Nancy agreed to use my measurements as the largest vehicle... I rounded up a little. There was going to be a size restriction by the end of that meeting. It wasn't announced in the agenda that I can recall, as a specific item and actually hit us by surprise. This meeting was the first time we'd heard that she wanted an enforceable size restriction. Debating whether or not there should be one, wasn't available, only what that restriction should be.

According to Nancy description of what fits, the numbers that we came up with are significantly larger than they should be. You can't be larger than 82" wide and not have to climb up some root balls and tree trunks in a few places, to squeeze through. At 81" there's a few points where I'm squeezing both tires on tree trunks to get between them. Based on what she wanted, we would have ended up at about 75-76" wide and about 100" long or less.

She's been examining the damage done to the roots and surrounding dirt at the base of the trees as well as the damage done by tires driving up the trees and bodies scraping along the trees. She wants that to stop.

According to what Nancy wants, if you have to climb up the bottom of the trees to get through, you don't fit. Even at 82" wide there are quite a few areas where you'll still have to climb up the base of a tree or it's root ball to squeeze through. A full bodied rig at significantly less than 107" is still going to be sliding off trees to get around corners which according to Nancy's definition still wouldn't fit.

Personally, I think we did well to get restrictions as large as we did.
 
i drove by there on my way home and had no clue.:booo:

how do you enforce WB?? :cheer:

the WB part of this is STUPID:rb:
 
This is also the ONLY section of trail in the park that has restrictions on the size. When we revamp the Rainier Vista trail it will accomodate the larger vehicles so even though some of the people will lose access to the busy, we're creating another double diamond trail.

If we can get a club to adopt one of the other blue trails there is room to convert it to a single black diamond trail since we have lots of blue trails and very few single black diamond. However, a club with have to adopt it, and bring the trail up to that level. I only see her letting one of those blue trails move up to black but I think the new easywild trail has some possibilitiies with some creative technical obstacles.
 
Oh yeah, she's also REALLY unhappy about all the winch cable damage to the trees. It'll be posted that tree savers are required and not doing so will be subject to a VERY stiff fine.
 
You didn't list Swamp trail. Where does it fall in to the catagories?

Fixed it in the list. The Swamp trail is a single black diamond.

BTW, I will soon be putting these ratings on the some GPS co-ordinates on the elbe map and getting that redone.
 
Thanks for your efforts on this Dale:awesomework: Unfortunatly when taking on a leadership role such as this you will always tick off someone. Keep up the good work:cheer:
 
Thanks for your efforts on this Dale:awesomework: Unfortunatly when taking on a leadership role such as this you will always tick off someone. Keep up the good work:cheer:

Even know Im wider than what is allowed Ill still help out and stand up for the rules and restrictions that have been come up with.:awesomework:
 
Even know Im wider than what is allowed Ill still help out and stand up for the rules and restrictions that have been come up with.:awesomework:

Narrow it. 85" is just plain wide for most places. You only need 3 inches, that could be an offset wheel change.
 
Narrow it. 85" is just plain wide for most places. You only need 3 inches, that could be an offset wheel change.

I just bought my wheels and bead locks. Ill narrow it if you buy me new wheels.
 
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