Elbe Meeting outcome

Gibby1 · Jan 12, 2008

Rich said:
It just seems alot of attention is towards a rock crawl trail, and figuring out how to keep out the fullsize or rig's too large for the busy, i didn't really hear anything about decent trails or improvements for the little guys?

*Are the little guys stuck going to Tahuya?

You have an option Rich. Put up or shut up kind of thing. If you don't belong to a club, get a group together of some sort, adopt a trail and then you can take that trail in the direction that you want.

Rich1 · Jan 12, 2008

Gibby said:
You have an option Rich. Put up or shut up kind of thing. If you don't belong to a club, get a group together of some sort, adopt a trail and then you can take that trail in the direction that you want.

Your missing the point and directing this at me......

I was just asking about the little guys or future plans on mild trails for others. Maybe you thought i was being defensive towards the Rock project you got going on? I'am all for NEW stuff... but if funding is tight, as it was said...

then why is money going into some project versus upkeep or that money used for these suggested ideas on the busywild that were discussed.

---------- I was more intrested to see what the group agreed on, and go along with that. it's not about what i want, or what i need. as per the way your making it out to be. i was asking what about the trails already there?

ARE THERE PLANS TO TAKE THEM AWAY AND/OR TURN THEM INTO MORE DIFFICULT TRAILS, and if so... which ones?

*:corn:

Dianamal77 · Jan 12, 2008

Rich said:
It seem to be a meeting with most members attending that were more of the extreme / hardcore trail users, *(in others words used at the meeting) Double Black Diamond trail / Busywild, is this saying the Extreme / HardCore rigs are the ones that mostly attened and wanted the most from this meeting?:corn:

In my opinion, a lot of the "little guys" did not attend this meeting because the main issue (size restrictions) doesn't really apply to them. The majority of people attending were those that the proposed restrictions directly affected.

My club, made up mostly of short wheel based rigs, runs Elbe (and specifically the Busy) regulary. And yes, we belong to the PNW and have for over 40 years. We had 6 club members and 1 guest at the focus meeting.

Gibby1 · Jan 12, 2008

Rich said:
Your missing the point and directing this at me......

I was just asking about the little guys or future plans on mild trails for others. Maybe you thought i was being defensive towards the Rock project you got going on? I'am all for NEW stuff... but if funding is tight, as it was said...

then why is money going into some project versus upkeep or that money used for these suggested ideas on the busywild that were discussed.

---------- I was more intrested to see what the group agreed on, and go along with that. it's not about what i want, or what i need. as per the way your making it out to be. i was asking what about the trails already there?

ARE THERE PLANS TO TAKE THEM AWAY AND/OR TURN THEM INTO MORE DIFFICULT TRAILS, and if so... which ones?

*:corn:

None of the money for the rock trail or rock crawl area is coming out of DNR budget, we're raising money through other means.

My point was, if you want to see a trail dedicated to smaller rigs, then adopt one of the remaining trails and maintain/built the trail to meet the needs of those drivers and vehicles.

Currently, there are too many easy trails at Elbe, combined with one very difficult trail. I'd like to see a couple more trails littered with technical obstacle and I'd like to see Elbe be all black diamond and double black diamond. Here's why.

1. Tahuya is a great trail system for lesser built vehicles and newer drivers. Evans Creek also offers good opportunities for the same vehicles. Elbe attracts the better built vehicles because of the busywild.
2. I still think that the tire size restriction on USFS land is inevitable and that's going to direct all the large tire crowd to DNR land. That puts an unusually high load on the few trails that are enjoyable by this crowd. I'd like to see the Rainier Vista and the busy wild be double black diamond and the rest of the trails move up to black diamond status. Black diamond requires 33-35" offroad tires, at least a single locker and recovery equipment (which can be straps, come-a-long, a high lift, tow points etc but not necessarily, a winch).

That's where I see Elbe fitting in as part of the BIG picture.

Rich1 · Jan 12, 2008

Gibby said:
None of the money for the rock trail or rock crawl area is coming out of DNR budget, we're raising money through other means.

My point was, if you want to see a trail dedicated to smaller rigs, then adopt one of the remaining trails and maintain/built the trail to meet the needs of those drivers and vehicles.

Currently, there are too many easy trails at Elbe, combined with one very difficult trail. I'd like to see a couple more trails littered with technical obstacle and I'd like to see Elbe be all black diamond and double black diamond. Here's why.

1. Tahuya is a great trail system for lesser built vehicles and newer drivers. Evans Creek also offers good opportunities for the same vehicles. Elbe attracts the better built vehicles because of the busywild.
2. I still think that the tire size restriction on USFS land is inevitable and that's going to direct all the large tire crowd to DNR land. That puts an unusually high load on the few trails that are enjoyable by this crowd. I'd like to see the Rainier Vista and the busy wild be double black diamond and the rest of the trails move up to black diamond status. Black diamond requires 33-35" offroad tires, at least a single locker and recovery equipment (which can be straps, come-a-long, a high lift, tow points etc but not necessarily, a winch).

That's where I see Elbe fitting in as part of the BIG picture.

I'am kinda with you on this, heres why'

minimum suggested tire size 33in, and being a black Diamond trail.... thru out the system, this would require winch / recovery - set-up rigs. and just might possibly end the STOCKERS from entering, *(but you know some will try)

but i think most will get it and not use that trails system until there rigs are built, or they have the right equipment to get thru. and most will not like a winch fest all day long.

I THINK I AGREE WITH YOU HERE - 100%

Gibby1 · Jan 12, 2008

Rich said:
I'am kinda with you on this, heres why'

minimum suggested tire size 33in, and being a black Diamond trail.... thru out the system, this would require winch / recovery - set-up rigs. and just might possibly end the STOCKERS from entering, *(but you know some will try)

but i think most will get it and not use that trails system until there rigs are built, or they have the right equipment to get thru. and most will not like a winch fest all day long.

I THINK I AGREE WITH YOU HERE - 100%

I must be slackin'. First Binder agreed with me on something, then Rich agreed on something. Chop Shop agreed with me on something. I'm just on a roll!:haha: :haha: :haha:

Rich1 · Jan 12, 2008

Gibby said:
I must be slackin'. First Binder agreed with me on something, then Rich agreed on something. Chop Shop agreed with me on something. I'm just on a roll!:haha: :haha: :haha:

My big beef was understanding, I was under the impression that funds were being used to 1st for adding this rock course, which really doesn't matter -unless the outcome of this focus meeting means;

Gate Keepers or signage or etc....

-----------------------

You are hitting nails my friend perfect in my book, Tahuya is idea for stockers, intermediate and even the handful of extreme rigs that do hang out there... theres a little bit of everything there for everyone and by the time tahuya catches up with the rest, MOST RIGS WILL ALREADY BE STANDARD built SPECS.

evans is the ideal spot for the inbetween not sure crowd. it's got both easy and difficult. it's perfect as it is, just keep it maintained.

-------------------

But i think like my original question was, what will that input be from the little guys, before it was taken out of text or mis-understood? like i said, most at that meeting were the extreme or people not wanting restrictions or wanted to here if that was going to happen. i was more concerned with user input.

I THINK THIS SOLVES IT, if the MAJORITY of users at or using ELBE want the trails this way, ALL black diamond or DOUBLE diamond, then that is what should happen. bcause that is what the MAJORITY wants.

*thats where i was going with it.

theres service roads with enough bumps / holes and difficult obstacles for the stockers. lol serious though, there should be a place for HARDCORE, there is already a weenie area in belfair, with some obstacles... :;

Binder · Jan 12, 2008

Gibby said:
I must be slackin'. First Binder agreed with me on something,

Never happened, I took it back.:flipoff:

dirtygoat · Jan 13, 2008

Rich said:
Are you a Indian too?

:haha:

Are you guys really speaking for a group of people???

Somebody should take your keyboards away...

For days you've argued about this and that...

Quit, you've already done enough damage to this sport...

My only hope is, one day we all will forget about your part...

mud4funtoy · Jan 13, 2008

pokey said:
Where as meetings like last night have their place and can make an impact haveing a large group like that at every focus meeting will be unproductive at best. Focus groups are just that a few people to focus on the issues at hand. As I said in my earlier post this will all go back to the DNR and they will digest it and come back to the focus group and back and forth. Last nights meeting was to make a point to the DNR and I believe that point was made. Now its time to see if they were listening and get on with the regular work at hand. If for some reason things seem to be ignored then a large group may be effective again. Now if we could just get all these people that showed up out to work partys just think what could be done:eeek:

Well they said it was the most people they ever saw. If it doesn't make a impact. What will ?
The next meeting is when they said they were going to figure these issues out and make some decisions. Anyone who wants to a part of that can and needs to be there. IF YOU DON'T WANT ANOTHER TAHUYA THEN YOU BETTER STAY INVOLVED. Let me ask this. When the busy it made the EASY, then what is left ? What trail do we have that offers what the busy does ?

Dogfather · Jan 13, 2008

No one has said anything about making the Busy The Easy... Where did this come from...

Dogfather · Jan 13, 2008

mud4funtoy said:
Nancy said it at the meeting that the rock was intended to make hard bottoms in all the holes. Jim and I asked that the rock be used to build hard pan go around and that the hard obstacles be left for the people that want that. Crazy Daze posted up what his discussion was with Nancy and from what i can see her agenda has not changed. The guy doing the talking was real proud of tahuya and I guarantee you they have been trying to get Elbe to look the same. The People that run DNR don't like our sport and when they have hired people that do Nancy's job that liked our sport they got rid of them.
If you look over history and all that they have done to our trails and the actions they have taken, How could you not think that the objective is to make the Busy the EASY.

When you state it like that and after I went back and read his Post I understand how your Opinion could be formed like that.

What made me Bark is the way you point fingers and make assumptions that someone has an Agenda. you make acquisitions about peoples feelings and thoughts. Why not ask them and post Facts instead of he feels she feels.

I have to give you credit with your (They are closing Elbe) tactics you were able to get a lot of people to show up but I think some of them were disappointed when Doug stood on the Podium and preached No restrictions. Never were going be

TreeClimber · Jan 13, 2008

Hey Dogfather, Pokey, and Mud4funtoy, I sent you each a copy, via email, of my email to Nancy.

Lemme know what you think.

Tony

Roccrawler · Jan 13, 2008

Steve,

You made 200+ people show up to a meeting.. :awesomework:

Keep up the good work.

Corey Y · Jan 13, 2008

I am unsure what the DNRs plans are for the Busywild, even after going to the meeting. It seemed to me that they wanted to keep unprepared vehicles from entering the trail, and to control unneccesary erosion. Take some large rocks and put them at the beginning and end of the trail, dump some quickcrete around them so they don't get moved. This will act as a "gatekeeper". Large, easy to read signs can be lazer or plasma cut out of 3/4"thick steel plate and posted by the gatekeepers. As for the erosion, I did the trail today and saw about 4 mudholes that are 44"+ deep, but some people go there to play in the mud. Like Jim said, the crushed rock would do best making solid bypasses. And most drivers like having multiple lines to choose from. All of this could be easily accomplished if there was help from everyone that was at the meeting, and it would show the DNR that the majority of users at Elbe Hills OHV Park want to keep the Busywild trail challenging.

pokey · Jan 14, 2008

TreeClimber said:
Hey Dogfather, Pokey, and Mud4funtoy, I sent you each a copy, via email, of my email to Nancy.

Lemme know what you think.

Tony

Thanks and it looks good Tony, After talking with her this morning shes not a happy camper anymore and we have our work cut out for us trying to rebuild our relationship with her.