Don't get me wrong here guys. I appreciate EVERYONE's help.
This what the plan for Saturday. Did this get done too? There was an entirely separate plan for Sunday that involved the upper section and those guys got there today entirely confused because the worked looked like it was done???
Originally Posted by Gibby
Here's the plan for Saturday. We're going to be working on the main hill climb.
Luey, I got your message about a redesign and I'll give you a shout tomorrow. However, as you see this develope I don't think we really need to do much different. I received an email from Nancy after the meeting and other than making sure that we have safe bypasses to get by the most difficult obstacles, she still on board with what we've talked about for a long time. Sorry I couldn't make the meeting, but I think you'll like what I have been envisioning for this trail for some time now. For Saturday, since I know for sure that Horus is going to be there, I'd like him to wear the white hat. When it comes to decisions regarding difficulty and safety, he makes the final call... When it comes to construction safety and design jeffroadams probably has the best experience in how to keep rocks where they belong, safe stacking techniques etc, so he's the man with the call there. Safety is number one so if he doesn't think something can be done safely in terms of the structure, then we rethink the structure.
I may have to break this PM into a few sections if I hit space limitations.
Obstacle 1 aka "rock climb"
At the very top of the hill climb there is already a natural bypass. Most of the rocks that Corey was able to bring in on the trailer were dropped here, but we're not going to use them here. They will need to go a little farther down the hill.
Step 1 is to leapfrog 8 of the largest boulders from the pile at the bottom of the hill climb, up to the top. Yes, I know this is time consuming but it's the only way to get it done. If the tractor that we're hoping to have is there, he can perhaps assist in moving the smaller rocks down the trail a little and out of the way until we're ready to use them.
Horus, here's one for you to make the call on. Across the trail at the top of the hill, there are several good trees for winch points. I am going to try to obtain a 4" wide tree save and D-ring that we can leave there permanently. The decision that needs to be made is whether or not the mail trail line or the bypass line has the line to get a good winch hookup. I think it's the main trail. The second part of the this decision is which of these two lines would have the least chance of having someone doing an endo down the hill should something happen. Safety is always the key factor. Let's assume it's the main trail line as I think that'll work best.
We're going to construct a rock wall climb that's about 14-18' high at about a 30 degree angle. Dig out the hill so that we can put 2 columns of boulders side by side going up the hill. These need to be dug in and secured probably to about 2/3 of the thickness of the rock and the rocks should be stacked with their flattest and longest surface facing out. We want the tire contact to be on the rock at all times and we want it long enough so that all 4 tires are climbing at the same time. The angle is to be steep enough to be difficult and create some pucker but not to the point of creating a real endo risk for the SWB vehicles. This angle is roughly 30 degrees. The bypass route should be approximately 8' wide beside it. If necessary, you can scratch out some additional trail to make this bypass.
Before moving on, this should be tested to make sure that the rocks are staying where they belong, are well positioned and that the bypass is easy to use and solid so that it will not erode.
Obstacle 2 - Stairway to Heaven.
This obstacle will finish (when travelling up the trail) near the start of the rock climb and will start right about the next bypass section, as you head down the hill. This is about 100' down from the rock climb. we don't have enough rocks to do all of this so use your best judgement on how long and exactly where this should be.
The object here is to create a series of stairsteps using the rocks that you just moved out of the way. The steps should vary in size, distance between the steps and the width of the steps. In this way every vehicle will get challenged at different sections. The rocks should be buried about 1/4 to 1/3 of their height to secure them. The run of each step (the top portion) should be flat and the rise (the vertical portion) should be as vertical as possible. The difficulty here should be consistent with the trail rating on most likely not require winching as there will not be a bypass here. Damaged vehicles will be able to easy go down this section if necessary, as a escape route. These steps should be whacky, make on that's tall but goes only half way across the trail, another that has only 2' of run and another that has 6' of run but is an an angle. This should be fun and tricky and be geared toward getting just the right bump speed and angles to get through it. You can use all the rocks that we had stored on the trail here.
Next, you get to go back down and get some more boulders right down below the stairway to heaven, there is another section with a built in bypass. We are allowed to use 20' as the trail corridor so you may want to even widen this out a little if need me.
Obstacle 3 - "got flex?"
On this obstacle, I want 6-10 of the large boulders. Since we can't dig holes, these are going to be the reverse of the articulating whoopsies at Tahuya. The rocks should be buried about 1/3 to 1/2 of their height in an alternating fashion so that we are dropping tires in holes at one place, while another is on top of a rock and back and forth all the way through. The rocks should be far enough apart that the center of the rocks are approximately equal to the average tire width, or about 70". This is approximately where the center of the tire is, not the outside. Figure 80-82" for the rigs on this trail and this puts the middle of the tire right at around 70". This has a bypass and we can make some anchors so those just making the minimum grade on the tire size will probably need to be assisted in order to get through, unless they have great flex.
Obstacle 4 - the "washout"
I'm hope that a tractor will be there and a few guys to help. Down below the "got flex" obstacle is a fairly simple wide open section. Using a couple of logs, make a couple of water bar type of blocks. I'm hoping that maybe Casey and Luey will be able to grab a couple of logs from Gotcha for this cause. I couldn't find much usefull on Rainier Vista last week. These logs should be dug in a little over 1/2 of their height and go diagonal across the trail. The goals here is to make about 100' of trail that consists of loose rock, from the size of fists, to footballs to basketballs, that are just littered loosely across the trail. The use of a couple of large rocks embedded in the trail can make this more interesting so that you can just fly through it, but still required some driving skill complicated by all the loose rock. About every 30-50' we need a log across the trail to keep the rocks from just sliding down the trail. This will not have a bypass but we do have a few stumps that we can use for decent winch points. Winch pulls here won't be hard ones as there's nothing difficult to climb over or out of, just lack of traction.
Obstacle 5 - "slider alley"
Continuing on down the trail find a good section to do this. A bypass will need to be created. Time to get some more rocks, but by this time they don't have to go nearly as far. This time rather than placing the rocks right together as we did at the "got flex" obstacle, they're going to be placed about sami size distance apart. These rocks can be well exposed with only about 1/4 of the rock buried for stability. The object here is to zig zag between the rocks. The SWB vehicles will have a hugh advantage here as the big guys are going to have to climb and scrap their way through. The difficulty level shoud still be consistent with the trail recommendations. I don't recall a good winch point along here but since we're going to make a bypass we can still make this one pretty fun. I call this slider alley because I think rocker knocker is used on a trail in the Rubicon.
Finally, the gatekeeper. I don't know if you'll get this far on Saturday but if you do, start by leaving the mainline to the right side of the tree open. Begin by working on the left side of the tree and have some fun making difficult play lines to get on the trail. Bury the rocks a sufficient amount to be safe and secure, but this is an open crawl section and it can be whatever we want. The central section will be the gatekeeper but for right now I'd like to keep it open until we know that we've got everything done on the trail. If you get the left side down, you can put in a simple gatekeeper of 3-4 rocks up the middle that will keep the quads and little guys out who chose to ignore the sign. We can always move 3-4 rocks to make the changes but I don't want to move 30-40 rocks to get an excavator past the gatekeeper.
Have fun, be safe and thank you.
Call me with questions.
This what the plan for Saturday. Did this get done too? There was an entirely separate plan for Sunday that involved the upper section and those guys got there today entirely confused because the worked looked like it was done???
Originally Posted by Gibby
Here's the plan for Saturday. We're going to be working on the main hill climb.
Luey, I got your message about a redesign and I'll give you a shout tomorrow. However, as you see this develope I don't think we really need to do much different. I received an email from Nancy after the meeting and other than making sure that we have safe bypasses to get by the most difficult obstacles, she still on board with what we've talked about for a long time. Sorry I couldn't make the meeting, but I think you'll like what I have been envisioning for this trail for some time now. For Saturday, since I know for sure that Horus is going to be there, I'd like him to wear the white hat. When it comes to decisions regarding difficulty and safety, he makes the final call... When it comes to construction safety and design jeffroadams probably has the best experience in how to keep rocks where they belong, safe stacking techniques etc, so he's the man with the call there. Safety is number one so if he doesn't think something can be done safely in terms of the structure, then we rethink the structure.
I may have to break this PM into a few sections if I hit space limitations.
Obstacle 1 aka "rock climb"
At the very top of the hill climb there is already a natural bypass. Most of the rocks that Corey was able to bring in on the trailer were dropped here, but we're not going to use them here. They will need to go a little farther down the hill.
Step 1 is to leapfrog 8 of the largest boulders from the pile at the bottom of the hill climb, up to the top. Yes, I know this is time consuming but it's the only way to get it done. If the tractor that we're hoping to have is there, he can perhaps assist in moving the smaller rocks down the trail a little and out of the way until we're ready to use them.
Horus, here's one for you to make the call on. Across the trail at the top of the hill, there are several good trees for winch points. I am going to try to obtain a 4" wide tree save and D-ring that we can leave there permanently. The decision that needs to be made is whether or not the mail trail line or the bypass line has the line to get a good winch hookup. I think it's the main trail. The second part of the this decision is which of these two lines would have the least chance of having someone doing an endo down the hill should something happen. Safety is always the key factor. Let's assume it's the main trail line as I think that'll work best.
We're going to construct a rock wall climb that's about 14-18' high at about a 30 degree angle. Dig out the hill so that we can put 2 columns of boulders side by side going up the hill. These need to be dug in and secured probably to about 2/3 of the thickness of the rock and the rocks should be stacked with their flattest and longest surface facing out. We want the tire contact to be on the rock at all times and we want it long enough so that all 4 tires are climbing at the same time. The angle is to be steep enough to be difficult and create some pucker but not to the point of creating a real endo risk for the SWB vehicles. This angle is roughly 30 degrees. The bypass route should be approximately 8' wide beside it. If necessary, you can scratch out some additional trail to make this bypass.
Before moving on, this should be tested to make sure that the rocks are staying where they belong, are well positioned and that the bypass is easy to use and solid so that it will not erode.
Obstacle 2 - Stairway to Heaven.
This obstacle will finish (when travelling up the trail) near the start of the rock climb and will start right about the next bypass section, as you head down the hill. This is about 100' down from the rock climb. we don't have enough rocks to do all of this so use your best judgement on how long and exactly where this should be.
The object here is to create a series of stairsteps using the rocks that you just moved out of the way. The steps should vary in size, distance between the steps and the width of the steps. In this way every vehicle will get challenged at different sections. The rocks should be buried about 1/4 to 1/3 of their height to secure them. The run of each step (the top portion) should be flat and the rise (the vertical portion) should be as vertical as possible. The difficulty here should be consistent with the trail rating on most likely not require winching as there will not be a bypass here. Damaged vehicles will be able to easy go down this section if necessary, as a escape route. These steps should be whacky, make on that's tall but goes only half way across the trail, another that has only 2' of run and another that has 6' of run but is an an angle. This should be fun and tricky and be geared toward getting just the right bump speed and angles to get through it. You can use all the rocks that we had stored on the trail here.
Next, you get to go back down and get some more boulders right down below the stairway to heaven, there is another section with a built in bypass. We are allowed to use 20' as the trail corridor so you may want to even widen this out a little if need me.
Obstacle 3 - "got flex?"
On this obstacle, I want 6-10 of the large boulders. Since we can't dig holes, these are going to be the reverse of the articulating whoopsies at Tahuya. The rocks should be buried about 1/3 to 1/2 of their height in an alternating fashion so that we are dropping tires in holes at one place, while another is on top of a rock and back and forth all the way through. The rocks should be far enough apart that the center of the rocks are approximately equal to the average tire width, or about 70". This is approximately where the center of the tire is, not the outside. Figure 80-82" for the rigs on this trail and this puts the middle of the tire right at around 70". This has a bypass and we can make some anchors so those just making the minimum grade on the tire size will probably need to be assisted in order to get through, unless they have great flex.
Obstacle 4 - the "washout"
I'm hope that a tractor will be there and a few guys to help. Down below the "got flex" obstacle is a fairly simple wide open section. Using a couple of logs, make a couple of water bar type of blocks. I'm hoping that maybe Casey and Luey will be able to grab a couple of logs from Gotcha for this cause. I couldn't find much usefull on Rainier Vista last week. These logs should be dug in a little over 1/2 of their height and go diagonal across the trail. The goals here is to make about 100' of trail that consists of loose rock, from the size of fists, to footballs to basketballs, that are just littered loosely across the trail. The use of a couple of large rocks embedded in the trail can make this more interesting so that you can just fly through it, but still required some driving skill complicated by all the loose rock. About every 30-50' we need a log across the trail to keep the rocks from just sliding down the trail. This will not have a bypass but we do have a few stumps that we can use for decent winch points. Winch pulls here won't be hard ones as there's nothing difficult to climb over or out of, just lack of traction.
Obstacle 5 - "slider alley"
Continuing on down the trail find a good section to do this. A bypass will need to be created. Time to get some more rocks, but by this time they don't have to go nearly as far. This time rather than placing the rocks right together as we did at the "got flex" obstacle, they're going to be placed about sami size distance apart. These rocks can be well exposed with only about 1/4 of the rock buried for stability. The object here is to zig zag between the rocks. The SWB vehicles will have a hugh advantage here as the big guys are going to have to climb and scrap their way through. The difficulty level shoud still be consistent with the trail recommendations. I don't recall a good winch point along here but since we're going to make a bypass we can still make this one pretty fun. I call this slider alley because I think rocker knocker is used on a trail in the Rubicon.
Finally, the gatekeeper. I don't know if you'll get this far on Saturday but if you do, start by leaving the mainline to the right side of the tree open. Begin by working on the left side of the tree and have some fun making difficult play lines to get on the trail. Bury the rocks a sufficient amount to be safe and secure, but this is an open crawl section and it can be whatever we want. The central section will be the gatekeeper but for right now I'd like to keep it open until we know that we've got everything done on the trail. If you get the left side down, you can put in a simple gatekeeper of 3-4 rocks up the middle that will keep the quads and little guys out who chose to ignore the sign. We can always move 3-4 rocks to make the changes but I don't want to move 30-40 rocks to get an excavator past the gatekeeper.
Have fun, be safe and thank you.
Call me with questions.
