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Help Support Hardline Crawlers :
Evans Creek improvements...
- Thread starter Qman
- Start date
Let me check on that. It seems iirc that the road to trail conversion didnt have the restricton but of course thats not much of a trail.
Jacob
Viewer Discretion Advised
All trails are 72 inches or less.
It is stated on the map straight from FS website.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5181228.pdf
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dirk
Well-Known Member
That is not correct. The new plan bumped it to 80 inches.
dirk
Well-Known Member
I believe you are correct Jim...there was discussion about adding obstacles on the converted roads, to give the wider rigs something to play on.
Jacob
Viewer Discretion Advised
Got any supporting documentation? The map from their site that users are REQUIRED to have in their possession while wheeling states 72". If you have documentation or a newer map, please share. If you have contacts in the FS, please see if they will update their maps.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5181228.pdf
Even the big MVUM map states 72"
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5181227.pdf
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Are they updating the rule/law books too?
Jacob
Viewer Discretion Advised
Since you seem to have an inside scoop, can you please provide your sources of this information? Also, when are these going to be enforced by citations? Do users have to continue to legally abide by the 72" rule until new maps are published? Enlighten us with some more background please. There are alot of users of the area that are very confused by what the 'rumors' are and what the maps state.
TreeClimber
Well-Known Member
Search here. There's plenty of threads pertaining to these subjects.
Jacob
Viewer Discretion Advised
Can I use the information here to fight a ticket? No, it is considered hearsay. It is all rumors until it comes from them. I think this is alot of our problems too, there is too much bad information being spread around. If it says 72" on their map then it is 72" until they publish something stating otherwise.
I am not trying to argue or have a pissing contest, I just want the correct information and that can only come from the people that actually make the rules. And their rules state 72".
I am not trying to argue or have a pissing contest, I just want the correct information and that can only come from the people that actually make the rules. And their rules state 72".
Bottom line. The same people go to DNR and FS meetings. They likely say the same things and express the same ideas regardless of the area or management in question, at least thats what they tell me in debriefing. I would have to miss work to attend these meetings so I rely on what my friends who do go tell me.
The DNR meets us half way and works with is so we are both happy. The things we say to them get us silt ponds and car sized rocks to make our trails more modern and pollution free. DNR is reasonable and so I think I'm in the neighborhood of 50 or 60 hours of volunteer time with them the last three months or so.
The same people say the same things at FS meetings and what do we get? Gravel roads. They tell us what they will be doing and when we offer our input its rolling eyes and sure, like thats going to happen. The FS does what they want and we, their employers, get a trail that looks just like the road to get to the park. They use scare tactics like threatening trail closures if they don't pave them. They actually threaten us like that! And we let it work on us and have for decades now.
So what do we need to do? Invade the next Evans meeting with 150ish real users of the area and really drive the message home? How many more areas do we need to lose before we figure out that being nice and working with the FS is not working like it does with DNR?
Bottom line is crushed gravel is NO LESS a man made material than an automobile or a chainsaw. They might as well coat our trails with crude oil and call it "returning the trails to their original condition."
The DNR meets us half way and works with is so we are both happy. The things we say to them get us silt ponds and car sized rocks to make our trails more modern and pollution free. DNR is reasonable and so I think I'm in the neighborhood of 50 or 60 hours of volunteer time with them the last three months or so.
The same people say the same things at FS meetings and what do we get? Gravel roads. They tell us what they will be doing and when we offer our input its rolling eyes and sure, like thats going to happen. The FS does what they want and we, their employers, get a trail that looks just like the road to get to the park. They use scare tactics like threatening trail closures if they don't pave them. They actually threaten us like that! And we let it work on us and have for decades now.
So what do we need to do? Invade the next Evans meeting with 150ish real users of the area and really drive the message home? How many more areas do we need to lose before we figure out that being nice and working with the FS is not working like it does with DNR?
Bottom line is crushed gravel is NO LESS a man made material than an automobile or a chainsaw. They might as well coat our trails with crude oil and call it "returning the trails to their original condition."
NotSoPC
Well-Known Member
The FS builds parks and only looks to makes sure anyone and everyone can use everything alll the time. They want it to look good and be fresh mowed. Wheeling areas on FS land is just not a good thing.
boardbysled
Tree Nerd.
The FS is scared shitless that thier gonna get sued anytime they do anything that the greenies don't like.
Ty.
Well-Known Member
Usually the greenies are just usefull idiots. They're fall guys, and a distraction from a bigger agenda.
boardbysled
Tree Nerd.
True, but I know up here in the Mt. Baker- snoqualmie, Mr. Lider has been hassling the fs anytime they do anything. They tried to repairthe suiattle road and faced a lawsuit. So they decided it wasn't worth it. Now he's hassling them about them building a road to clean up a superfund site. Heaven forbid they actually did a decent timbersale.
But, I do see how they are a scapegoat, FS employer's aren't willing to stick thier neck out.for us. Their gonna do what the book says. And, we all know how the forest circus hires only.the best employees.
billulsund
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately they have yet to publish the new 80" width restriction anywhere. Those of us who were at the meeting did get the correct information from the people who actually make the rules. We were told by the LEOs who write the tickets that the width restriction has been increased to 80". I was there so I know for a fact that it is not a rumor. It sounds like the only way you are going to believe it is if you hear it from the horse's mouth and since the only way to do that is to attend a meeting I guess I will see you at the next FS meeting.
Jacob
Viewer Discretion Advised
How long does it take them to update the maps? Do they realize how much confusion the word of mouth vs. the provided material is causing? It is a matter of changing a total of 2 characters on 2 different maps and re-hosting them on their site. :looser:
Unless they have a million of them printed because supposedly these maps are offered for free at the FS offices.
