Evans Creek improvements...

boardbysled · Sep 30, 2011

Jacob said:
How long does it take them to update the maps? Do they realize how much confusion the word of mouth vs. the provided material is causing? It is a matter of changing a total of 2 characters on 2 different maps and re-hosting them on their site. :looser:

Unless they have a million of them printed because supposedly these maps are offered for free at the FS offices.

You have obviously not dealt with the FS that much.

Whats the FS good at? Taking thier sweet-ass time and wasting money.

Jacob · Sep 30, 2011

I have dealt with them quite a bit actually, just not in Washington. Someone is paid to update that information on their site and that someone is not doing their job, or they really are not planning on changing the measurement....

zukkev · Sep 30, 2011

Jacob said:
Can I use the information here to fight a ticket? No, it is considered hearsay. It is all rumors until it comes from them. I think this is alot of our problems too, there is too much bad information being spread around. If it says 72" on their map then it is 72" until they publish something stating otherwise.

I am not trying to argue or have a pissing contest, I just want the correct information and that can only come from the people that actually make the rules. And their rules state 72".

There is an entire thread on here that delt with the restriction....including the final ruling of 80" width...search and you will find...:awesomework:

Jacob · Sep 30, 2011

zukkev said:
There is an entire thread on here that delt with the restriction....including the final ruling of 80" width...search and you will find...:awesomework:

So now the forest service gives their final ruling on decisions on this forum? Where the hell are they now to rule on some of the other issues?

zukkev · Sep 30, 2011

Jacob said:
So now the forest service gives their final ruling on decisions on this forum? Where the hell are they now to rule on some of the other issues?

http://www.nw-wheelers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57185&highlight=width+restriction

there, I did it for you...

And no, they don't make their final ruling on this forum...the information is posted from those who were actually at said meeting when the official word comes out...you should try it sometime (go to a meeting or two, so you get this info first-hand by asking questions at the meeting...)! :awesomework:

Jacob · Sep 30, 2011

zukkev said:
http://www.nw-wheelers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57185&highlight=width+restriction

there, I did it for you... And no, they don't make their final ruling on this forum...the information is posted from those who were actually at said meeting when the official word comes out...you should try it sometime (go to a meeting or two, so you get this info first-hand by asking questions at the meeting...)! :awesomework:

Seeing as how I didn't get here until January it would have been hard to go to that meeting. Thanks for your input and for searching for that thread that I had already searched for and found.

You have all have missed my point and I am tired of trying to make it.

zukkev · Sep 30, 2011

Jacob said:
Seeing as how I didn't get here until January it would have been hard to go to that meeting. Thanks for your input and for searching for that thread that I had already searched for and found.

You have all have missed my point and I am tired of trying to make it.

Glad you found it :awesomework:---soooo, if you found it, why ask?
And if there's a point that your trying to make , why beat around the bush? just come out and get to the point.

billulsund · Sep 30, 2011

I get your point. You are saying that a government agency is not doing something it is supposed to do in the timely fashion that you would like. Imagine that!? I know it is hard to believe that it is not the Forest Service's top priority to update a width rule for an ORV park, but that is the case. There have been meetings since January that you could have attended and then asked the FS people yourself. Since you seem determined to not believe your fellow wheelers who did attend the meetings you could try emailing [email protected] or [email protected] if you wish to hear it from the people who actually make the rules.

zukkev · Sep 30, 2011

billulsund said:
I get your point. You are saying that a government agency is not doing something it is supposed to do in the timely fashion that you would like. Imagine that!? I know it is hard to believe that it is not the Forest Service's top priority to update a width rule for an ORV park, but that is the case. There have been meetings since January that you could have attended and then asked the FS people yourself. Since you seem determined to not believe your fellow wheelers who did attend the meetings you could try emailing [email protected] or [email protected] if you wish to hear it from the people who actually make the rules.

Thank you....:haha:

Jacob · Sep 30, 2011

This is the point I am trying to make-

The information you guys keep referencing on here, in this forum, even says it is not official. WHEN IS IT GOING TO BE OFFICIAL? THE ONLY OFFICIAL INFORMATION OUT THERE STILL SAYS IT IS 72 INCHES.

These are quotes from the thread that was posted for me to read-

pokey said:
I have been told that it will be 80" and I am sure it will be but I have counted my chickens before and came up short so until I see it on paper I am just trusting their word. Personaly I think if you build to 80" you will be fine.

pokey said:
80" is going to be the maximun width rule (once signed by the ranger)

pokey said:
White River Forest Service meeting
11/16/2010

Christmas tree sales are open for the season. Sales have been brisk.

All of the seasonal employees accept one have been laid of for the year. She (Leslie) will
be working with Mary on the snow parks.

Evans Creek,
Evans will be closed on December 15th

zukkev · Sep 30, 2011

Jacob said:
This is the point I am trying to make-

The information you guys keep referencing on here, in this forum, even says it is not official. WHEN IS IT GOING TO BE OFFICIAL? THE ONLY OFFICIAL INFORMATION OUT THERE STILL SAYS IT IS 72 INCHES.

These are quotes from the thread that was posted for me to read-

And yet the point your trying to argue about the info not being out there was stated, by a user that attended the very meeting when the info became official...It the first post that started the thread I linked...

Evans Creek Width Restriction...
It's Official!!!

80" width restriction at Evans Creek ORV Park...

This was stated at tonight's focus group meeting by Bob Pacifico...

The poles that will be installed will be set at 80" apart...

You will have to fit between them to run the trails...

I would strongly suggest you email Bob Pacifico himself to get the answer straight from the horse's mouth himself---

zukkev · Sep 30, 2011

My point is, your arguing over a 30+ yr old print...if you want to voice your concerns over the length of time it take the gov to update info, send an email bob, don't argue it over the net....

Binder · Sep 30, 2011

Jacob has a valid point here. What's in writing is what the rule or law is regardless of what anyone says. They may enforce something more lenient but if a guy were to get a ticket for being over 72" there's nothing in writing to back him up.

Jacob · Sep 30, 2011

binder said:
jacob has a valid point here. What's in writing is what the rule or law is regardless of what anyone says. They may enforce something more lenient but if a guy were to get a ticket for being over 72" there's nothing in writing to back him up.

we have a winner!

zukkev · Sep 30, 2011

Binder said:
Jacob has a valid point here. What's in writing is what the rule or law is regardless of what anyone says. They may enforce something more lenient but if a guy were to get a ticket for being over 72" there's nothing in writing to back him up.

Jacob said:
we have a winner!

I'll agree with that....but as stated before Jacob, send Bob an email asking what the official word is, get a response from him stating what he says, print it out and have it with you---at the same time express your concerns about the length of time it takes for the Gov to update info---

Jacob · Sep 30, 2011

Here is the responses I got back from Ian-

Apparently the MVUM will be corrected/updated. As it stands now you are fine at 80. There should be no issues with our staff at 80. We have 80 inch barricades in place at the beginning of the trails. If there is an issue just contact Bob or I an we can clarify. Thanks, Ian

From: Jacob Phillips [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 5:07 PM
To: Canaan, Ian; Pacific, Bob
Subject: Re: Evans Creek Width?

Is there an official document that states the width that I can have to distribute to other ORV users? As it stands now, users can be ticketed for being wider than 72" because we are required to carry the MVUM with us and it states 72".

Thank you for your time discussing this with me.

Jacob

From: "Canaan, Ian" <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 00:02:10 +0000
To: Jacob Phillips <[email protected]>, "Pacific, Bob" <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Evans Creek Width?

We have no idea. Those use maps are not created locally.

From: Jacob Phillips [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 5:00 PM
To: Canaan, Ian; Pacific, Bob
Subject: Re: Evans Creek Width?

Do you know when the maps will be updated so that there is no more confusion amongst the users and so we can be sure we are in compliance?

Thank you,

Jacob

From: "Canaan, Ian" <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 23:54:47 +0000
To: Jacob Phillips <[email protected]>, "Pacific, Bob" <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Evans Creek Width?

I believe 80 is the new standard.

From: Jacob Phillips [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 4:51 PM
To: Pacific, Bob
Cc: Canaan, Ian
Subject: Evans Creek Width?

What is the official width restriction at Evans Creek OHV use area? Users state it is 80". The official maps users are required to have on hand state it is 72". Can you give me definite answer please?

Thank you,

Jacob

Jacob · Sep 30, 2011

This is the actual managment plan for Evans Creek. It makes for some interesting reading. Just thought I would post incase anyone else wanted to catch up on what exactly is going on up there and why.

Link to Document

Ty. · Oct 1, 2011

Jacob said:
This is the actual managment plan for Evans Creek. It makes for some interesting reading. Just thought I would post incase anyone else wanted to catch up on what exactly is going on up there and why.

Link to Document

I got to page 14, and felt like I needed to puke.